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Yeah, I don't think too many people are accidentally going to stumble upon the sort of meditation-induced psychosis talked about in the post using Headspace or

Yeah, I don't think too many people are accidentally going to stumble upon the sort of meditation-induced psychosis talked about in the post using Headspace or Waking Up to try and reclaim some presence in their thoughts. They just get you to sit there, consciously realize that thoughts come from nowhere, and notice that you can merely discard them. After a year of the Waking Up app, it's just a practical way to reground myself. For example, maybe I realize a bit of anxiety in a large place like a music festival, and I take a moment to try to discard the feeling. I'd be surprised if this wasn't the sort of meditation most people associate with the word. So the thought of that being psychedelic or dangerous to people, suggested in the post, is just a reminder of how many things fall under the umbrella of "meditation".

kragen 5y ago
I think it's more a question of dose. If you're meditating 20 minutes a day for three years you probably won't see a big effect. If you're meditating 12 hours for a day for 10 years, you're going to encounter a lot of stuff that could get labeled "psychosis" by people who don't know about it. And, it may be permanent. What kind of meditation you're doing will affect what you encounter and how you deal with it, but none of the paths will remain just "a practical way to reground [your]self."
- ssijak 5y ago
  If you eat one cube of sugar in a coffee per day and no sweets you are good. If you eat one kilo of sugar each day you'll probably get diabetes in a few months.
  - kragen 5y ago
    I think the picture is a little more complicated than that. There have been entire monasteries full of people who spend many hours a day meditating for thousands of years. They don't seem to be mentally unhealthy on the whole, though there are some exceptions. So it's evidently not the kind of thing where a continuous overdose will leave your mind or your body disabled; on the contrary, the meditators tend to live longer than average and be happier. However, the kind of experiences described (seeing visions, losing interest in mundane matters, becoming certain of beliefs that turn out to be false) are a well-known feature of the process. And it's at least widely believed that guidance from experienced meditators is very helpful, if not crucial, to navigating these experiences.
    - verve_rat 5y ago
      > There have been entire monasteries full of people who spend many hours a day meditating for thousands of years. They don't seem to be mentally unhealthy on the whole, Not to be snarky (ok maybe a little), but they do believe in unprovable beings on some "higher" plane of existence...
      - astrange 5y ago
        If they’re practicing Buddhists they recognize that their own self doesn’t exist, so I think they’re winning compared to the average Westerner who believes in free will. Not to mention all those other unprovable beings like “Moses” and “George Washington” who like to hand down written commandments we follow.
      - avgcorrection 5y ago
        You just called billions of people mentally unhealthy. Not so much snarky as unnecessarily mean.
        kragen 5y ago
        It is one of the basic tenets of Buddhism† that humans are constantly deluding themselves and doing self-defeating things. In modern terms, you could say they are all mentally ill. This is asserted of humans in general, not just those who meditate a lot. It's unnecessarily mean if it's not true or, arguably, if there's nothing they can do about it. But if it's true and there's something they can do about it, then not saying it is being unnecessarily mean. The Buddhist prescription for how to get better (from common garden-variety self-delusion, not schizophrenia) is called the Noble Eightfold Path, and a large dose of meditation occupies an important place in it. Other important ingredients traditionally include material renunciation, strict nonviolence, celibacy, abstinence from alcohol, honesty, politeness, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path ______ † And, arguably, Christianity.
        avgcorrection 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
TapWaterBandit 5y ago
I have been doing Waking up and meditating 10 minutes a day and really liking it for exactly this reason. It almost feels like I am "training" my mind like I train my body with exercise whereas previously my thoughts and feelings would just run away on me and I would be along for the ride. Whereas now I am getting a bit better at realising I don't just need to be dragged along by whatever pops into my head moment to moment.

kragen 5y ago

I think it's more a question of dose. If you're meditating 20 minutes a day for three years you probably won't see a big effect. If you're meditating 12 hours for a day for 10 years, you're going to encounter a lot of stuff that could get labeled "psychosis" by people who don't know about it. And, it may be permanent. What kind of meditation you're doing will affect what you encounter and how you deal with it, but none of the paths will remain just "a practical way to reground [your]self."

ssijak 5y ago
If you eat one cube of sugar in a coffee per day and no sweets you are good. If you eat one kilo of sugar each day you'll probably get diabetes in a few months.
- kragen 5y ago
  I think the picture is a little more complicated than that. There have been entire monasteries full of people who spend many hours a day meditating for thousands of years. They don't seem to be mentally unhealthy on the whole, though there are some exceptions. So it's evidently not the kind of thing where a continuous overdose will leave your mind or your body disabled; on the contrary, the meditators tend to live longer than average and be happier. However, the kind of experiences described (seeing visions, losing interest in mundane matters, becoming certain of beliefs that turn out to be false) are a well-known feature of the process. And it's at least widely believed that guidance from experienced meditators is very helpful, if not crucial, to navigating these experiences.
  - verve_rat 5y ago
    > There have been entire monasteries full of people who spend many hours a day meditating for thousands of years. They don't seem to be mentally unhealthy on the whole, Not to be snarky (ok maybe a little), but they do believe in unprovable beings on some "higher" plane of existence...
    - astrange 5y ago
      If they’re practicing Buddhists they recognize that their own self doesn’t exist, so I think they’re winning compared to the average Westerner who believes in free will. Not to mention all those other unprovable beings like “Moses” and “George Washington” who like to hand down written commandments we follow.
    - avgcorrection 5y ago
      You just called billions of people mentally unhealthy. Not so much snarky as unnecessarily mean.
      - kragen 5y ago
        It is one of the basic tenets of Buddhism† that humans are constantly deluding themselves and doing self-defeating things. In modern terms, you could say they are all mentally ill. This is asserted of humans in general, not just those who meditate a lot. It's unnecessarily mean if it's not true or, arguably, if there's nothing they can do about it. But if it's true and there's something they can do about it, then not saying it is being unnecessarily mean. The Buddhist prescription for how to get better (from common garden-variety self-delusion, not schizophrenia) is called the Noble Eightfold Path, and a large dose of meditation occupies an important place in it. Other important ingredients traditionally include material renunciation, strict nonviolence, celibacy, abstinence from alcohol, honesty, politeness, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path ______ † And, arguably, Christianity.
        avgcorrection 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

TapWaterBandit 5y ago

I have been doing Waking up and meditating 10 minutes a day and really liking it for exactly this reason. It almost feels like I am "training" my mind like I train my body with exercise whereas previously my thoughts and feelings would just run away on me and I would be along for the ride. Whereas now I am getting a bit better at realising I don't just need to be dragged along by whatever pops into my head moment to moment.