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This is tragic for all the many, many reasons everyone else has outlined (DRM, Tencent, etc.), but for me the biggest blow is the loss of the last commercially

This is tragic for all the many, many reasons everyone else has outlined (DRM, Tencent, etc.), but for me the biggest blow is the loss of the last commercially viable (profitable!), but independent champion of underground and truly independent music. Say all you want about the freedom and quasi-independence of self-publishing to the various streaming corporations, etc., but for years now, the underground scene has thrived on and been virtually exclusively supported by Bandcamp. It's like every independent artist in the world just got signed to a major corporate label all at once, minus the benefits to the artists. I recognize that's hyperbolic, but fuck me, I feel physically sick over this.

inasmuch 5y ago
If anyone wants to build an alternative/replacement/FOSS tool—whatever kind of remedy for this tragedy—I would eagerly partner up and design it (can't code well, sorry).
- gen220 5y ago
  It'd be reasonable to structure the development company as a non-profit, to prevent an outcome like Bandcamp's. I think it may be possible to build the marketplace in a purely FOSS-y way, but it would be illegal to operate it with the wrong configuration values. I'm thinking in particular about the accounting functions, such as earmarking x% of each sale for royalties, and ensuring they go to/from the correct bank accounts. In other words, one could plausibly release the code as FOSS, but the interface would depend on a set of corporate entities that are configured a particular way, so it would be of limited value to the median person. It would definitely lower the barrier to entry for people to fork the business, though, which is probably a good thing for the median person. --- I'd also be down to contribute as an engineer, if such a project already exists with momentum or if somebody wants to start it!
  - joveian 5y ago
    indiehd.com mentioned elsewhere doesn't look like it is nonprofit but does have an at least mostly open source store: https://indiehd.com https://indiehd.com https://github.com/indiehd https://github.com/indiehd They have 277 albums listed, almost nothing, and it doesn't sound like they are really ready to be a full Bandcamp replacement but maybe they will be able to turn into something artists want to use.
    - gen220 5y ago
      I took a poke around; it looks like the source code is a little dead and incomplete (e.g. I see mentions of paypal, but no imports of paypal libraries or targeting paypal apis). Some of the text (like business rules) are genuine insight/wisdom-mines, though. It might not be overly useful to fork this stuff, but it is definitely useful inspiration! Major props to the authors for open sourcing big chunks of their work and perspectives.
      - joveian 5y ago
        Thanks for the summary. I wish them luck with the more open approach and hopefully they will publish more at some point. I only looked quickly but the part about artists and labels is not sufficient. On Bandcamp, individual albums can be listed by an artist but on a particular label with a small link to the label. It appears in the list of albums for the label and for the artist. This dynamic is very important for finding indie music and, as far as I can tell without being in the industry at all, artists often want to work with different people on the production as well as marketing side and everyone benefits. It often isn't the case that artists pick one label and stick with them for a while, they may have one or more that they release with more often but also do one off releases with other labels and self publish some albums or tracks. I don't know how it works behind the scene but I assume artists generally don't want all the labels that they release on to be able to edit everything, the labels should be restricted to editing the album released on that label unless additional permission is given. Of course, it makes sense for indiehd to start with the simpler cases (and it is wonderful that they are so open about what they are doing) but hopefully they are working on the more complex relationships needed to support the indie scene.
        gen220 5y ago
        Yeah, I built out some models for this as a weekend project, based on my limited knowledge as a bandcamp consumer. It's a surprisingly-complex domain! Simply modelling all of the relationships is a fun experiment. i.e. so-and-so is the producer and advertised co-artist, so-and-so is both an individual artist but also a member of bands X and Y, bands X and Y are part of the super-group Z; label A is a subsidiary of B, which was a subsidiary of label C from 2012-2016, was independent from 2016-2017 and is a subsidiary of label D from then until now. Now, think about building RBAC on top of this, like you're hinting at! No small feat, to be sure. edit: The main rabbit-hole I dove down was revenue-sharing, so that labels and artists can be paid out immediately, without the latter needing to wait for some settlement layer governed by the label. It turns out Stripe allows you to implement this fairly easily, and with limited fuss! Even if the label chooses not to use this process for some reason (I wonder why!), you should be able to model out revenues for all parties, and show the artist(s)/song-writer(s)/label(s) what they should have had in gross and post-tax earnings for any given period in time. You can even show the music consumer what % of each purchase will go to the various parties involved in producing the music, which might help in steering people towards indie labels or artists. Kind of like nutrition facts for music. :)

inasmuch 5y ago

If anyone wants to build an alternative/replacement/FOSS tool—whatever kind of remedy for this tragedy—I would eagerly partner up and design it (can't code well, sorry).

gen220 5y ago
It'd be reasonable to structure the development company as a non-profit, to prevent an outcome like Bandcamp's. I think it may be possible to build the marketplace in a purely FOSS-y way, but it would be illegal to operate it with the wrong configuration values. I'm thinking in particular about the accounting functions, such as earmarking x% of each sale for royalties, and ensuring they go to/from the correct bank accounts. In other words, one could plausibly release the code as FOSS, but the interface would depend on a set of corporate entities that are configured a particular way, so it would be of limited value to the median person. It would definitely lower the barrier to entry for people to fork the business, though, which is probably a good thing for the median person. --- I'd also be down to contribute as an engineer, if such a project already exists with momentum or if somebody wants to start it!
- joveian 5y ago
  indiehd.com mentioned elsewhere doesn't look like it is nonprofit but does have an at least mostly open source store: https://indiehd.com https://indiehd.com https://github.com/indiehd https://github.com/indiehd They have 277 albums listed, almost nothing, and it doesn't sound like they are really ready to be a full Bandcamp replacement but maybe they will be able to turn into something artists want to use.
  - gen220 5y ago
    I took a poke around; it looks like the source code is a little dead and incomplete (e.g. I see mentions of paypal, but no imports of paypal libraries or targeting paypal apis). Some of the text (like business rules) are genuine insight/wisdom-mines, though. It might not be overly useful to fork this stuff, but it is definitely useful inspiration! Major props to the authors for open sourcing big chunks of their work and perspectives.
    - joveian 5y ago
      Thanks for the summary. I wish them luck with the more open approach and hopefully they will publish more at some point. I only looked quickly but the part about artists and labels is not sufficient. On Bandcamp, individual albums can be listed by an artist but on a particular label with a small link to the label. It appears in the list of albums for the label and for the artist. This dynamic is very important for finding indie music and, as far as I can tell without being in the industry at all, artists often want to work with different people on the production as well as marketing side and everyone benefits. It often isn't the case that artists pick one label and stick with them for a while, they may have one or more that they release with more often but also do one off releases with other labels and self publish some albums or tracks. I don't know how it works behind the scene but I assume artists generally don't want all the labels that they release on to be able to edit everything, the labels should be restricted to editing the album released on that label unless additional permission is given. Of course, it makes sense for indiehd to start with the simpler cases (and it is wonderful that they are so open about what they are doing) but hopefully they are working on the more complex relationships needed to support the indie scene.
      - gen220 5y ago
        Yeah, I built out some models for this as a weekend project, based on my limited knowledge as a bandcamp consumer. It's a surprisingly-complex domain! Simply modelling all of the relationships is a fun experiment. i.e. so-and-so is the producer and advertised co-artist, so-and-so is both an individual artist but also a member of bands X and Y, bands X and Y are part of the super-group Z; label A is a subsidiary of B, which was a subsidiary of label C from 2012-2016, was independent from 2016-2017 and is a subsidiary of label D from then until now. Now, think about building RBAC on top of this, like you're hinting at! No small feat, to be sure. edit: The main rabbit-hole I dove down was revenue-sharing, so that labels and artists can be paid out immediately, without the latter needing to wait for some settlement layer governed by the label. It turns out Stripe allows you to implement this fairly easily, and with limited fuss! Even if the label chooses not to use this process for some reason (I wonder why!), you should be able to model out revenues for all parties, and show the artist(s)/song-writer(s)/label(s) what they should have had in gross and post-tax earnings for any given period in time. You can even show the music consumer what % of each purchase will go to the various parties involved in producing the music, which might help in steering people towards indie labels or artists. Kind of like nutrition facts for music. :)