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Don't forget about option (d), try to kill everyone in Ukraine. Less than 100 years have passed since Stalin attempted exactly that, by killing all the farmers

by csense 5y ago

Don't forget about option (d), try to kill everyone in Ukraine. Less than 100 years have passed since Stalin attempted exactly that, by killing all the farmers and selling all the food.

jihadjihad 5y ago
It's hard to know what that would serve to accomplish, considering it contradicts Putin's entire ethos for invading in the first place: he fundamentally views Ukrainians as culturally Russian, and wants to bring them back "into the fold." His entire rhetoric is adamant about that--it's why he uses words like genocide when talking about eastern Ukraine. I can't see how (d), which in effect would be genocide, would do anything but erode any possibility of support for the war effort, considering the family ties to Ukraine held by Russian nationals.
- tuatoru 5y ago
  Rhetoric is rhetoric: it provides a smokescreen. Geostrategically, Putin wants what every ruler of Russia has wanted since it was the Principality of Muscovy: control of the North European Plain, in order to prevent invasion from the west.[1][2] An empty, derelict Ukraine would serve nearly as well as a puppet state for this purpose. 1. It's worth reading some geography and history. Russia has been invaded a lot, and has a justifiable fear of invasion. Sure, the West might not want to invade now, but who can predict what the situation will be in 2070 or 2170? 2. Putin also wants to maintain the viability of Russia's warm-water port at Sevastopol. The Crimean peninsula was formerly supplied with water by a canal from Ukraine, but that was blocked after Russia annexed Crimea, and Crimea is now desperately short of water. And there is the small matter of major unexploited gas fields in the Black Sea between Crimea and (the rest of) Ukraine...
  - chupy 5y ago
    He does not need to prevent invasion from the west, just having the nukes automatically prevents that and he knows it. One of the first thing the Russians did was unblock that canal that Ukraine cemented. That plus them sending cannon fodder to the nord and what seems like better troops south + east starts to feel like this whole war is more about a resource grab than to "prevent invasion from the west". I could maybe understand one madman feeling like he wants to rebuild the past USSR glory but if it's all about the money that can be made from oil/gas then it's clear it's not just him driving this.

by csense 5y ago

Don't forget about option (d), try to kill everyone in Ukraine. Less than 100 years have passed since Stalin attempted exactly that, by killing all the farmers and selling all the food.

jihadjihad 5y ago

It's hard to know what that would serve to accomplish, considering it contradicts Putin's entire ethos for invading in the first place: he fundamentally views Ukrainians as culturally Russian, and wants to bring them back "into the fold." His entire rhetoric is adamant about that--it's why he uses words like genocide when talking about eastern Ukraine. I can't see how (d), which in effect would be genocide, would do anything but erode any possibility of support for the war effort, considering the family ties to Ukraine held by Russian nationals.

tuatoru 5y ago
Rhetoric is rhetoric: it provides a smokescreen. Geostrategically, Putin wants what every ruler of Russia has wanted since it was the Principality of Muscovy: control of the North European Plain, in order to prevent invasion from the west.[1][2] An empty, derelict Ukraine would serve nearly as well as a puppet state for this purpose. 1. It's worth reading some geography and history. Russia has been invaded a lot, and has a justifiable fear of invasion. Sure, the West might not want to invade now, but who can predict what the situation will be in 2070 or 2170? 2. Putin also wants to maintain the viability of Russia's warm-water port at Sevastopol. The Crimean peninsula was formerly supplied with water by a canal from Ukraine, but that was blocked after Russia annexed Crimea, and Crimea is now desperately short of water. And there is the small matter of major unexploited gas fields in the Black Sea between Crimea and (the rest of) Ukraine...
- chupy 5y ago
  He does not need to prevent invasion from the west, just having the nukes automatically prevents that and he knows it. One of the first thing the Russians did was unblock that canal that Ukraine cemented. That plus them sending cannon fodder to the nord and what seems like better troops south + east starts to feel like this whole war is more about a resource grab than to "prevent invasion from the west". I could maybe understand one madman feeling like he wants to rebuild the past USSR glory but if it's all about the money that can be made from oil/gas then it's clear it's not just him driving this.