5 ms·

The Theology of Chocolate

40 points by Thevet 5y ago

VariableStar 5y ago
Very interesting article. It shows the cultural disruption brought upon tradition and a religious canon by a new product. After a long time when the many theological discussions did not solve anything the supreme argument of business interests solved the matter swiftly. Not different from today!
maerF0x0 5y ago
a little fun on the "theology" side made it all the way into chemistry: > Theobromine (3,7-dimethylxanthine) is the principle alkaloid in Theobroma cacao (the cacao bean) https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/theobromine https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/theobromine > at name in turn is made up of the Greek roots theo ("god") and broma ("food"), meaning "food of the gods".[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine#Etmyology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine#Etmyology
cafard 5y ago
"Pope Innocent refused the Carmelites’ request and it was not, in fact, until almost a century later that Pope Pius VI issued a definitive ruling that clerics could drink chocolate (albeit only away from Church premises)." The only Carmelites I knew were cloistered. Kind of hard to get away from Church premises under such conditions.
- qntty 5y ago
  Interesting, I didn't know that there were cloistered Carmelites. I thought that mendicant == itinerant. According to this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discalced_Carmelites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discalced_Carmelites it's mostly nuns that are cloistered. Were they nuns or friars?
  - cafard 5y ago
    Nuns. Frankly, I don't know much about the rest of them.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Theology is a funny thing. Once upon a time, Lent was a time of fasting for the entire period. Then it was a period where you didn't eat meat. Now you don't eat meat on Fridays and you give up some other random thing for the 40 day period. I might have gotten some of that slightly incorrect, but the main thing was that you were supposed to give something up that you really wanted and then refrain from eating meat on a certain day. Well, in South Louisiana, seafood is a huge part of the local food culture and crawfish season starts about the same time as Lent. It's a time of the year when crawfish are plentiful and fat, and their shells aren't as hard as they get during the summer and fall months. So instead of fasting on Fridays, they gorge themselves silly with shellfish and beer when they aren't eating fried fish and oysters either by themselves or in po-boys. Hell, the archbishop of New Orleans even declared alligator meat to be fish for Lent. From time to time, you will find stern condemnations of such activities in opinion pieces from well-heeled socialites who grew up in the upper class New Orleans area Catholic social scene... but those are the sort of people who would never be caught dead at an average man's crawfish boil to begin with. So the local Catholics will go be pious with ash-smeared foreheads and palm leaves drying on the rest behind the back seats of their cars, then party it up for 6 straight Fridays.
- bandie91 5y ago
  your description very much confuses theology with discipline. the visible signs of lent and fasting are only disciplinary questions, which is a kind of an implementation of theology. one can implement it worse or better. i agree that it's sad that people takes only the "dry words of the canon law" into consideration and not open to accept the greater underlaying idea which manifests in lent - or it is the church teachers who should to a better job educating. well… more likely both aspects are responsible at once. in some sense they are right not abstaining from some foods just for the sake of abstinance. if there is no consciousness in it, if you don't know why and don't agree what do you, then it's probably more harm than gain.
- dylan604 5y ago
  I've always thought it funny how theology changes to suit man's needs/purposes.

40 points by Thevet 5y ago

Very interesting article. It shows the cultural disruption brought upon tradition and a religious canon by a new product. After a long time when the many theological discussions did not solve anything the supreme argument of business interests solved the matter swiftly. Not different from today!

maerF0x0 5y ago

a little fun on the "theology" side made it all the way into chemistry: > Theobromine (3,7-dimethylxanthine) is the principle alkaloid in Theobroma cacao (the cacao bean) https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/theobromine https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/theobromine > at name in turn is made up of the Greek roots theo ("god") and broma ("food"), meaning "food of the gods".[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine#Etmyology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine#Etmyology

cafard 5y ago

"Pope Innocent refused the Carmelites’ request and it was not, in fact, until almost a century later that Pope Pius VI issued a definitive ruling that clerics could drink chocolate (albeit only away from Church premises)." The only Carmelites I knew were cloistered. Kind of hard to get away from Church premises under such conditions.

qntty 5y ago
Interesting, I didn't know that there were cloistered Carmelites. I thought that mendicant == itinerant. According to this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discalced_Carmelites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discalced_Carmelites it's mostly nuns that are cloistered. Were they nuns or friars?
- cafard 5y ago
  Nuns. Frankly, I don't know much about the rest of them.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

Theology is a funny thing. Once upon a time, Lent was a time of fasting for the entire period. Then it was a period where you didn't eat meat. Now you don't eat meat on Fridays and you give up some other random thing for the 40 day period. I might have gotten some of that slightly incorrect, but the main thing was that you were supposed to give something up that you really wanted and then refrain from eating meat on a certain day. Well, in South Louisiana, seafood is a huge part of the local food culture and crawfish season starts about the same time as Lent. It's a time of the year when crawfish are plentiful and fat, and their shells aren't as hard as they get during the summer and fall months. So instead of fasting on Fridays, they gorge themselves silly with shellfish and beer when they aren't eating fried fish and oysters either by themselves or in po-boys. Hell, the archbishop of New Orleans even declared alligator meat to be fish for Lent. From time to time, you will find stern condemnations of such activities in opinion pieces from well-heeled socialites who grew up in the upper class New Orleans area Catholic social scene... but those are the sort of people who would never be caught dead at an average man's crawfish boil to begin with. So the local Catholics will go be pious with ash-smeared foreheads and palm leaves drying on the rest behind the back seats of their cars, then party it up for 6 straight Fridays.

bandie91 5y ago
your description very much confuses theology with discipline. the visible signs of lent and fasting are only disciplinary questions, which is a kind of an implementation of theology. one can implement it worse or better. i agree that it's sad that people takes only the "dry words of the canon law" into consideration and not open to accept the greater underlaying idea which manifests in lent - or it is the church teachers who should to a better job educating. well… more likely both aspects are responsible at once. in some sense they are right not abstaining from some foods just for the sake of abstinance. if there is no consciousness in it, if you don't know why and don't agree what do you, then it's probably more harm than gain.
dylan604 5y ago
I've always thought it funny how theology changes to suit man's needs/purposes.