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Why not start by removing the fees and standardized tests, then see how that works before implementing the more controversial subjective and class based changes

Why not start by removing the fees and standardized tests, then see how that works before implementing the more controversial subjective and class based changes? This sort of change would retain equality while reducing inequity. Agree - a less contentious approach to solving the problem would have been better. I would like to see how removing the fee and removing the test altered the composition of incoming classes, without the extra poor-school, ESOL, etc policies. “Emails and text messages between Board members and high-ranking [Fairfax school] officials leave no material dispute that, at least in part, the purpose of the Board’s admissions overhaul was to change the racial makeup to TJ to the detriment of Asian-Americans.” Even that language is open to interpretation (lacking the text of the emails). Did somebody explicitly say "we need fewer Asians"? Or was it "the racial balance at TJ nowhere near represents the racial composition of the county"? At the end of the day, for whatever reason, Asians are disproportionately over-represented at TJ and that is a problem (if nothing else, it's a perception problem, but I suspect it's a lot more complicated than that).

giantg2 5y ago
I agree, except maybe this part. "At the end of the day, for whatever reason, Asians are disproportionately over-represented at TJ and that is a problem" What do you mean? Just because representation varies from the population doesn't automatically mean there's a problem. Just as an example, I remember seeing a paper about why African American college graduates made less than white graduates. The major finding was that African Americans were more likely to choose careers that provide societal benefits, like social workers or teachers. But those jobs tend to be lower paid relative to college level jobs in the private sector. We could investigate if those jobs are adequately paid, but it isn't defacto evidence of system having a problem. It seems these aggregate measures tend to have problems with interpretation, just like the gender wage gap. My guess would be that Asians are over-represented due mostly to cultural differences pertaining to parental expectations. Even with the recent changes designed to increase diversity and give preference to undeserved students and racial balancing, Asians make up about 50% of the student population. That's still over-represented. That's part of why I think there must be a home-life influence related to culture. That's just my guess and my anecdotal experience, but some info does hint at support for this. Such as immigration rules implicitly selecting for intelligent/successful people and that the culture in many Asian countries highly values educational achievement. In the US we see almost 50% of Asian Americans have a BS or higher compared to around 28% in the general population. Yet I have not seen any policies explicitly favoring Asian Americans. This suggests to me a likelihood that it's culturally related and not directly a problem. The "problem" would be with other demographics not showing the same cultural emphasis on education.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  My guess would be that Asians are over-represented due mostly to cultural differences pertaining to parental expectations. But that also hints a problem, albeit not one caused by the admissions process. The problem might just be "some parents suck", but I'd hope we can mitigate that impact somehow. Students underachieving (relatively) solely because their parents are mediocre (or worse) isn't ideal. The solution to this might be enhancing primary school and related enrichment so kids with crap parents can also succeed. But that doesn't mean the admissions process isn't contributing by ignoring other measures of student potential.

giantg2 5y ago

I agree, except maybe this part. "At the end of the day, for whatever reason, Asians are disproportionately over-represented at TJ and that is a problem" What do you mean? Just because representation varies from the population doesn't automatically mean there's a problem. Just as an example, I remember seeing a paper about why African American college graduates made less than white graduates. The major finding was that African Americans were more likely to choose careers that provide societal benefits, like social workers or teachers. But those jobs tend to be lower paid relative to college level jobs in the private sector. We could investigate if those jobs are adequately paid, but it isn't defacto evidence of system having a problem. It seems these aggregate measures tend to have problems with interpretation, just like the gender wage gap. My guess would be that Asians are over-represented due mostly to cultural differences pertaining to parental expectations. Even with the recent changes designed to increase diversity and give preference to undeserved students and racial balancing, Asians make up about 50% of the student population. That's still over-represented. That's part of why I think there must be a home-life influence related to culture. That's just my guess and my anecdotal experience, but some info does hint at support for this. Such as immigration rules implicitly selecting for intelligent/successful people and that the culture in many Asian countries highly values educational achievement. In the US we see almost 50% of Asian Americans have a BS or higher compared to around 28% in the general population. Yet I have not seen any policies explicitly favoring Asian Americans. This suggests to me a likelihood that it's culturally related and not directly a problem. The "problem" would be with other demographics not showing the same cultural emphasis on education.

alistairSH 5y ago
My guess would be that Asians are over-represented due mostly to cultural differences pertaining to parental expectations. But that also hints a problem, albeit not one caused by the admissions process. The problem might just be "some parents suck", but I'd hope we can mitigate that impact somehow. Students underachieving (relatively) solely because their parents are mediocre (or worse) isn't ideal. The solution to this might be enhancing primary school and related enrichment so kids with crap parents can also succeed. But that doesn't mean the admissions process isn't contributing by ignoring other measures of student potential.