3 ms·
>Look at the Punic Wars vs. the Peloponnesian War for example Not sure how this supports your thesis. Are you trying to say that the punic wars was more devast
by Banana699 5y ago
>Look at the Punic Wars vs. the Peloponnesian War for example
Not sure how this supports your thesis. Are you trying to say that the punic wars was more devastating/brutal than the Peloponnesian because the first had people of different races fighting while the second had only Greeks fighting amongst themselves ? there are several problems with this :
- We have no estimates of the casualties on both sides of both conflicts, Wikipedia only has an estimate of one side of the Peloponnesian, and it's only the military casualties.
- In the Peloponnesian war, Sparta actually allied with the Persians. They were entirely OK with people of different races murdering their fellow Greeks, I think they had zero problems murdering their own race too. (and burning the whole city if it came to that, but it didn't, but that doesn't really mean Spartans were softer because their enemies were Greek, it just means the Athenians surrendered quicker and didn't try again, unlike the Punics)
>Japanese in the Warring States vs. Japanese in China in the 1930s
This is really comparing apples and oranges, those two wars are about 5-6 centuries apart, whatever you're comparing as proxy for 'brutal' or 'destructive' is very much confounded by technological advances in warfare.
>Compare the attitudes of the English towards the Germans in WWI vs in WWII.
I don't understand what this is trying to say. Did English attitudes toward Germany differ between WW1 and WW2 (besides the trivial differences explainable by the change in geopolitical atmosphere and warfare style)? how much of that is both parties seeing each other as different or similar races?
>the behavior of the Germans on the different fronts
I never said that race-based dehumanization isn't brutally effective and leads to astonishing results when it could be used, in fact I placed it at the top of the hierarchy when it comes to dehumanization algorithms.
What I'm denying here is the claim that this efficiency of dehumanization can't be achieved using other methods or combination of methods, I'm asserting that it can, just with more effort/propaganda. I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case in this specific Ukraine-Russia conflict, I don't trust the hose of (dis)information on this conflict the internet spews every day anyway, so I don't really have a strong opinion on anything in it besides the most naked facts.
All what I'm disputing is the claim
>Wars with same-race combatants are, always or most of the time or on average, less brutal than wars with different races fighting
I'm saying that this is false and reductive, Religion in particular is a very strong counterexample. Communism-style genocides is another.
- jeffreyrogers 5y ago> This is really comparing apples and oranges, those two wars are about 5-6 centuries apart, whatever you're comparing as proxy for 'brutal' or 'destructive' is very much confounded by technological advances in warfare. I'm not going to reply line by line to your other points. Though I disagree with your interpretation of my argument it's clear we aren't going to reach agreement there, but this statement is just wrong. Genocide has occurred throughout history, including at times prior to and contemporary with the warring states period. Technology has nothing to do with it. For example the Dzungar's in China in the 1700s. More recently the Rwandan genocide was carried out with primitive weapons. There are numerous other examples.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]