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Without minimizing the awfulness of this invasion and the fact that it must be condemned, it is not nearly as brutal as Russian operations in Chechnya and Syria

Without minimizing the awfulness of this invasion and the fact that it must be condemned, it is not nearly as brutal as Russian operations in Chechnya and Syria or the US-led coalition invasion of Iraq, likely because Ukranians are not nearly as much of a racial or cultural other to Russians as Chechens or Syrians. The greater ability of Ukrainians to gain coverage in both traditional and social media may also be a factor.

AlwaysRock 5y ago
Yes. What the USA does to other countries is atrocious. It's likely the reason the USAs damage is worst is that we have far superior equipment to do damage. It's horrible and disgusting. But what does it have to do with what is happening in the Ukraine right now?
- x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
  Because when the West is doing it, no one batts an eye and then devolves into a diatribe about "Freedom" and "Democracy". There are no sanctions, there is very little overt assistance given to our enemies. But when Russia does it we start toying with the idea of nuclear war and allowing groups to go over as foreign fighters.
999900000999 5y ago
Thank you for articulating this better than I could. You had a CBS* commentator straight up saying this is different than Middle East wars since Kyiv is a " civilized city". That said, I think much of Russia's restraint is due to their end goal. Ukraine's Russian backed president was outted in a coup back in 2014. The new pro West leadership decided to go dancing with John McCain. This entire conflict could of been avoided if we didn't keep trying to expand NATO. I know I'm not enlisting if the Russians invade Poland tomorrow, but the existence of NATO implies I am. It's not hard to imagine if Haiti had a US backed leader, who was removed in a coup and then replaced with a pro Russia / pro China president. Now imagine China and Russia announcing plans for various military bases on Haiti. The Russians could finally have a warm water port. In no universe would America accept Haiti having a right to its own foreign policy. We don't want anyone else playing in our backyard. To be clear, this doesn't justify a stronger country imposing it's will upon a weaker one. This is worth a read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars * CBS not CNN
- vegai_ 5y ago
  Does NATO membership imply that America owns the country? I haven't witnessed anything like that in any of the European NATO countries.
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    >Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm Like I said, I'm not enlisting if the Russians invade Poland. If individual American citizens want to a join a Polish foreign legion, that's fine. Maybe the State Department can create a list of approved foreign legions American citizen can join. Then your free to sign up on your own accord.
    - ProjectArcturis 5y ago
      Lol yes, history shows that aggressive dictators just want to conquer Poland, and if we give it to them they'll stop there.
      - rightbyte 5y ago
        He'd stop in East Germany though ...
    - mercutio2 5y ago
      Are you saying you would enlist if Germany, France, or the UK was invaded, but specifically Poland isn't worth enlisting for, because it's a former Warsaw Pact country? Or are you saying that you just don't believe in NATO, you would like the US not to have mutual defense alliances at all, and the expansion of NATO is completely irrelevant to your feelings about NATO? Poland and Hungary have done autocratic things I don't agree with, but their governments seem to come much closer to following the will of the people then they would if they were again inside Russia's sphere of influence, and I think bringing them inside NATO was good for them. I'm not sure whether it was a good maneuver strategically, but I'm also not sure it wasn't.
Arrath 5y ago
Yet. It's not as brutal, yet. As this supposed encircling attack of Kyiv begins and progresses, who knows what we might see.
darkarmani 5y ago
I agree. Condemn them for the invasion. The "collateral" damage of civilians is part of an invasion. I haven't seen any evidence of targeting civilians as a goal. The US has unfortunate civilian casualties as well during missile strikes. This is probably the absolute only thing where I think Russia is being unfairly characterized. We'll see though as more intel comes in and if they start unloading on the cities. Possibly holding them to a high standard now, will keep them in check as they get more frustrated.

AlwaysRock 5y ago

Yes. What the USA does to other countries is atrocious. It's likely the reason the USAs damage is worst is that we have far superior equipment to do damage. It's horrible and disgusting. But what does it have to do with what is happening in the Ukraine right now?

x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
Because when the West is doing it, no one batts an eye and then devolves into a diatribe about "Freedom" and "Democracy". There are no sanctions, there is very little overt assistance given to our enemies. But when Russia does it we start toying with the idea of nuclear war and allowing groups to go over as foreign fighters.

999900000999 5y ago

Thank you for articulating this better than I could. You had a CBS* commentator straight up saying this is different than Middle East wars since Kyiv is a " civilized city". That said, I think much of Russia's restraint is due to their end goal. Ukraine's Russian backed president was outted in a coup back in 2014. The new pro West leadership decided to go dancing with John McCain. This entire conflict could of been avoided if we didn't keep trying to expand NATO. I know I'm not enlisting if the Russians invade Poland tomorrow, but the existence of NATO implies I am. It's not hard to imagine if Haiti had a US backed leader, who was removed in a coup and then replaced with a pro Russia / pro China president. Now imagine China and Russia announcing plans for various military bases on Haiti. The Russians could finally have a warm water port. In no universe would America accept Haiti having a right to its own foreign policy. We don't want anyone else playing in our backyard. To be clear, this doesn't justify a stronger country imposing it's will upon a weaker one. This is worth a read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars * CBS not CNN

vegai_ 5y ago
Does NATO membership imply that America owns the country? I haven't witnessed anything like that in any of the European NATO countries.
- 999900000999 5y ago
  >Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm Like I said, I'm not enlisting if the Russians invade Poland. If individual American citizens want to a join a Polish foreign legion, that's fine. Maybe the State Department can create a list of approved foreign legions American citizen can join. Then your free to sign up on your own accord.
  - ProjectArcturis 5y ago
    Lol yes, history shows that aggressive dictators just want to conquer Poland, and if we give it to them they'll stop there.
    - rightbyte 5y ago
      He'd stop in East Germany though ...
  - mercutio2 5y ago
    Are you saying you would enlist if Germany, France, or the UK was invaded, but specifically Poland isn't worth enlisting for, because it's a former Warsaw Pact country? Or are you saying that you just don't believe in NATO, you would like the US not to have mutual defense alliances at all, and the expansion of NATO is completely irrelevant to your feelings about NATO? Poland and Hungary have done autocratic things I don't agree with, but their governments seem to come much closer to following the will of the people then they would if they were again inside Russia's sphere of influence, and I think bringing them inside NATO was good for them. I'm not sure whether it was a good maneuver strategically, but I'm also not sure it wasn't.

Arrath 5y ago

Yet. It's not as brutal, yet. As this supposed encircling attack of Kyiv begins and progresses, who knows what we might see.

darkarmani 5y ago

I agree. Condemn them for the invasion. The "collateral" damage of civilians is part of an invasion. I haven't seen any evidence of targeting civilians as a goal. The US has unfortunate civilian casualties as well during missile strikes. This is probably the absolute only thing where I think Russia is being unfairly characterized. We'll see though as more intel comes in and if they start unloading on the cities. Possibly holding them to a high standard now, will keep them in check as they get more frustrated.