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There are always going to be civilian casualties in war, but it sure looks like they are trying to limit them. Would be worth comparing to other, similar confli

There are always going to be civilian casualties in war, but it sure looks like they are trying to limit them. Would be worth comparing to other, similar conflicts. Surely a full scale air campaign would lead to more civilian casualties?

3pt14159 5y ago
Don't forget the decisions of individual soldiers here. If I were forced to drive a tank in a war I did not believe in and a babushka threw a pointless cocktail at me I would not retaliate. These individual actions in war add up.
- squarefoot 5y ago
  Especially if there are good chances that the ones you have been ordered to shoot at could be relatives of you or some people close to you. A lot of Ukrainians and Russians are connected, that's another important factor.
selectodude 5y ago
Russia is using thermobaric and cluster munitions in Kharkiv. I really just don't think that Russia has quite as many PGMs as we think and Russia is close enough to most of Ukraine that they can launch regular old rockets from safe territory on the ground.
- mattnewton 5y ago
  Has the use of thermobarics been confirmed? I know they were spotted in the area and there was an explosion in Kharkiv, but it could have been gas pipelines that were hit, and I've also see that explaination for the explosion videos.
  - saiya-jin 5y ago
    Tons of pictures/videos of TOS-1 system, even one abandoned on some field. Now can I safely say its from current conflict and from Ukraine? Obviously not, but I personally lean to agree.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - chasd00 5y ago
    Thermobarics are standard issue fuel/air bombs correct? I thought they were specifically designed for anti-personnel use, are they banned or somehow out of the ordinary? I don't understand why it would be notable if they were used.
    - mattnewton 5y ago
      I think using thermobarics on a city is potentially a serious escalation from hitting airports and other infrastructure, as they are designed to kill people, especially people in shelters. Because of the ability to rip air out of them, and from the surrounding to sustain longer explosions that penetrate deeper in openings and tunnels. My understanding is that they have an extremely wide blast radius that will kill people taking cover compared to the structural damage they dish out.
mikeyouse 5y ago
Yeah I agree with this - not sure it'll last but if you look at what the Russians did in Georgia, it's clear they're not in "maximal damage" mode yet. The longer this drags out, the worse it'll get for Ukrainian cities but that's my impression of the lack of bombardment from the skies too.
NicoJuicy 5y ago
They used a vacuum bomb. That's not a precise missle...
shepardrtc 5y ago
> it sure looks like they are trying to limit them Just saw a video where they blew the leg off a civilian that was just standing in the road to block their advance.
chasd00 5y ago
with Ukraine arming anyone who wants to be armed and conscripting all males between 18 and 60 the lines between civilian and soldier are becoming blurred. I saw a video of some kids in a car driving by a tank and throwing a molotov cocktail out the window. To me, they are no longer "civilians" and a legitimate target. It's surprising they lived long long enough to upload the video to social media.
deleted 5y ago
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3pt14159 5y ago

Don't forget the decisions of individual soldiers here. If I were forced to drive a tank in a war I did not believe in and a babushka threw a pointless cocktail at me I would not retaliate. These individual actions in war add up.

squarefoot 5y ago
Especially if there are good chances that the ones you have been ordered to shoot at could be relatives of you or some people close to you. A lot of Ukrainians and Russians are connected, that's another important factor.

selectodude 5y ago

Russia is using thermobaric and cluster munitions in Kharkiv. I really just don't think that Russia has quite as many PGMs as we think and Russia is close enough to most of Ukraine that they can launch regular old rockets from safe territory on the ground.

mattnewton 5y ago
Has the use of thermobarics been confirmed? I know they were spotted in the area and there was an explosion in Kharkiv, but it could have been gas pipelines that were hit, and I've also see that explaination for the explosion videos.
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  Tons of pictures/videos of TOS-1 system, even one abandoned on some field. Now can I safely say its from current conflict and from Ukraine? Obviously not, but I personally lean to agree.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- chasd00 5y ago
  Thermobarics are standard issue fuel/air bombs correct? I thought they were specifically designed for anti-personnel use, are they banned or somehow out of the ordinary? I don't understand why it would be notable if they were used.
  - mattnewton 5y ago
    I think using thermobarics on a city is potentially a serious escalation from hitting airports and other infrastructure, as they are designed to kill people, especially people in shelters. Because of the ability to rip air out of them, and from the surrounding to sustain longer explosions that penetrate deeper in openings and tunnels. My understanding is that they have an extremely wide blast radius that will kill people taking cover compared to the structural damage they dish out.

mikeyouse 5y ago

Yeah I agree with this - not sure it'll last but if you look at what the Russians did in Georgia, it's clear they're not in "maximal damage" mode yet. The longer this drags out, the worse it'll get for Ukrainian cities but that's my impression of the lack of bombardment from the skies too.

NicoJuicy 5y ago

They used a vacuum bomb. That's not a precise missle...

shepardrtc 5y ago

> it sure looks like they are trying to limit them Just saw a video where they blew the leg off a civilian that was just standing in the road to block their advance.

chasd00 5y ago

with Ukraine arming anyone who wants to be armed and conscripting all males between 18 and 60 the lines between civilian and soldier are becoming blurred. I saw a video of some kids in a car driving by a tank and throwing a molotov cocktail out the window. To me, they are no longer "civilians" and a legitimate target. It's surprising they lived long long enough to upload the video to social media.

deleted 5y ago

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