5 ms·

> Bandcamp will keep operating as a standalone marketplace and music community... 40% of which will be owned by Tencent, possibly more in the future based on t

> Bandcamp will keep operating as a standalone marketplace and music community... 40% of which will be owned by Tencent, possibly more in the future based on the whims of Tim Sweeney and the performance of Epic's primary business (Video Games). Really unfortunate to see an independent source for music become part of a huge conglomerate.

JaimeThompson 5y ago
Just wait to see what happens when Gabe of Valve decides to retire and needs to diversify his holdings.
- revolvingocelot 5y ago
  You think the guy who bought a racing team for funsies (and for charity!), the guy with an extensive forge setup in his palatial basement, needs more money? I know it's hip to be cynical and all, but seriously. Even if he were so motivated by money, could anyone even put together a payout that'd be better than "continue to watch the Steam Store print money, beholden to no one because Valve is a privately-held company held by you"?
  - anchpop 5y ago
    The GP didn't say anything about anyone needing more money?
  - JaimeThompson 5y ago
    How many people expected Gates to do something like the Gates Foundation?
    - revolvingocelot 5y ago
      What's the relevance of the Gates Foundation? Gates didn't sell Microsoft in order to start it, he used his own personal fortune (fine, Warren Buffet helped, but he didn't sell any golden geese to afford it, either).
      - JaimeThompson 5y ago
        Gates sold a decent amount of his Microsoft stock to fund the foundation, something Gabe can't really do given the current structure of Valve. They would have to go public for him to do so, sell to private concerns, or something like that all actions which would dilute his control of Valve.
  - johnnyanmac 5y ago
    >I know it's hip to be cynical and all, but seriously. I mean, thats many of the comments about this news, despite Epic/Tencent historally ringing true to their words. >could anyone even put together a payout that'd be better than "continue to watch the Steam Store print money, beholden to no one because Valve is a privately-held company held by you"? Sure. It's just a middleman storefront, and there are trillionaire tech companies right now (and more in the future). Maybe Gabe leverages Valve and jumps to a whole other industry when he tires of games. Maybe he just sells it all off and turns that into assets to will off (better than giving family a company they can't manage). Nothing is certain and much larger internet darlings have been turned agaisnt faster.
    - revolvingocelot 5y ago
      >I mean, thats many of the comments about this news, despite Epic/Tencent historally ringing true to their words. I can't meaningfully reply to this because I don't understand your misspelled malapropism (words ring true, not their speakers). You seem to be suggesting that Epic/Tencent tell the truth, which historically I see isn't true (Linux support, Rocket League, etc), so I must be misunderstanding you. >It's just a middleman storefront, and there are trillionaire tech companies right now I think you misunderstand Valve, which is currently in the process of releasing a revolutionary console/handheld PC, and its profit margins, which might be healthier than you anticipate. >Maybe Gabe leverages Valve and jumps to a whole other industry when he tires of games. Maybe he just sells it all off and turns that into assets to will off (better than giving family a company they can't manage). Nothing is certain and much larger internet darlings have been turned agaisnt faster Moreover, I think you misunderstand Newell himself. Steam Machines, Proton itself, and now the Steam Deck suggest a dedication to pro-consumer practices generally and videogames specifically that don't really map well to the typical bloodless VC calculus that you're trying to understand this situation with.
  - ghostly_s 5y ago
    Somehow Neil Young (the guy who bought a model train company for funsies) and a host of his ostensibly-principled contemporaries all decided recently that they needed more money by selling their catalogs, so I would hazard against assuming anyone is immune to the temptations of more money.
    - andrewzah 5y ago
      Well, why not? Neil Young is 76, Sting is 70, Bob Dylan is 80. At that point it's better to just sell the catalogue for an enormous amount of money to do things with.
      - ghostly_s 5y ago
        Because despite all the problems, there is at least a glimmer of a hope that an artist's estate will act in the interest of preserving their patron's legacy.
    - revolvingocelot 5y ago
      GabeN's personal financial stake in Valve likely realizes much more in the way of a) cashflow and b) control than any rocker's relationship with their catalogs. Newell isn't the ageing rocker, smarting over the unfairness of the contract, he's the old-school cigar-chomping record executive, deigning to allow others to enrich him with their art. If he wants more money, he's just got to wait around for a bit. It'll arrive presently.
tombert 5y ago
Forgive a bit of ignorance on my end...what has Tencent actually done? I know they own stake in Epic and I've heard there's controversy, but I don't know what it is.
- mdoms 5y ago
  There hasn't been any evidence that Tencent has influenced Epic, or have the power to do so. Sweeney has defended the rights of players and publishers on Epic to speak out against China and the CCP.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- gman83 5y ago
  Well, they own WeChat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat#Controversies
mdoms 5y ago
Epic Founder and CEO Tim Sweeney has addressed this a number of times and so far given no reason to doubt it, > I’m the controlling shareholder in Epic Games, and have been since 1991. We have a number of outside investors now. Tencent is the largest. All of Epic’s investors our friends and partners. None can dictate decisions to Epic. None have access to Epic customer data. > Tencent is a Chinese company founded in 1998. CEO Pony Ma and the other co-founders played a lot of Unreal Tournament back then, and visited Epic in the early 2000’s. In 2012 Epic was looking to move to online games, and we invited Tencent in as an investor to help us. > I’ve never regretted it, and the recent anti-China rage doesn’t change that even slightly, as its completely unfounded. Epic has only had positive interactions with Tencent at all levels. > All of Epic’s big decisions are made here in the USA and as CEO I’m 100% responsible for them. I’m grateful for everyone who has spoken in support. I also read and respectfully consider all dissenting arguments of fact and principle. Just please keep it real. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1113963999287291905 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/111396399928729190... Although I completely agree with you that it's a shame to see yet another indie source get swallowed up by a big corporation.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  I think it's naive to think that the opinion of a 40% shareholder has no influence on the CEO. Even if that just presents as a bias in their decision making. > Although I completely agree with you that it's a shame to see yet another indie source get swallowed up by a big corporation. For the record, I don't think that Tencent is any more evil than Disney, Sony, or Microsoft in this regard.
  - mdoms 5y ago
    > I think it's naive to think that the opinion of a 40% shareholder has no influence on the CEO. Even if that just presents as a bias in their decision making. I'm more than willing to accept that I'm being naive. All I ask is some actual evidence of this influence/bias.
    - KerrAvon 5y ago
johnnyanmac 5y ago
Tencent as a game studio is even more hand-off than Epic. I haven't heard of any of their many acquisitions really being affected after purchase.

JaimeThompson 5y ago

Just wait to see what happens when Gabe of Valve decides to retire and needs to diversify his holdings.

revolvingocelot 5y ago
You think the guy who bought a racing team for funsies (and for charity!), the guy with an extensive forge setup in his palatial basement, needs more money? I know it's hip to be cynical and all, but seriously. Even if he were so motivated by money, could anyone even put together a payout that'd be better than "continue to watch the Steam Store print money, beholden to no one because Valve is a privately-held company held by you"?
- anchpop 5y ago
  The GP didn't say anything about anyone needing more money?
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  How many people expected Gates to do something like the Gates Foundation?
  - revolvingocelot 5y ago
    What's the relevance of the Gates Foundation? Gates didn't sell Microsoft in order to start it, he used his own personal fortune (fine, Warren Buffet helped, but he didn't sell any golden geese to afford it, either).
    - JaimeThompson 5y ago
      Gates sold a decent amount of his Microsoft stock to fund the foundation, something Gabe can't really do given the current structure of Valve. They would have to go public for him to do so, sell to private concerns, or something like that all actions which would dilute his control of Valve.
- johnnyanmac 5y ago
  >I know it's hip to be cynical and all, but seriously. I mean, thats many of the comments about this news, despite Epic/Tencent historally ringing true to their words. >could anyone even put together a payout that'd be better than "continue to watch the Steam Store print money, beholden to no one because Valve is a privately-held company held by you"? Sure. It's just a middleman storefront, and there are trillionaire tech companies right now (and more in the future). Maybe Gabe leverages Valve and jumps to a whole other industry when he tires of games. Maybe he just sells it all off and turns that into assets to will off (better than giving family a company they can't manage). Nothing is certain and much larger internet darlings have been turned agaisnt faster.
  - revolvingocelot 5y ago
    >I mean, thats many of the comments about this news, despite Epic/Tencent historally ringing true to their words. I can't meaningfully reply to this because I don't understand your misspelled malapropism (words ring true, not their speakers). You seem to be suggesting that Epic/Tencent tell the truth, which historically I see isn't true (Linux support, Rocket League, etc), so I must be misunderstanding you. >It's just a middleman storefront, and there are trillionaire tech companies right now I think you misunderstand Valve, which is currently in the process of releasing a revolutionary console/handheld PC, and its profit margins, which might be healthier than you anticipate. >Maybe Gabe leverages Valve and jumps to a whole other industry when he tires of games. Maybe he just sells it all off and turns that into assets to will off (better than giving family a company they can't manage). Nothing is certain and much larger internet darlings have been turned agaisnt faster Moreover, I think you misunderstand Newell himself. Steam Machines, Proton itself, and now the Steam Deck suggest a dedication to pro-consumer practices generally and videogames specifically that don't really map well to the typical bloodless VC calculus that you're trying to understand this situation with.
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  Somehow Neil Young (the guy who bought a model train company for funsies) and a host of his ostensibly-principled contemporaries all decided recently that they needed more money by selling their catalogs, so I would hazard against assuming anyone is immune to the temptations of more money.
  - andrewzah 5y ago
    Well, why not? Neil Young is 76, Sting is 70, Bob Dylan is 80. At that point it's better to just sell the catalogue for an enormous amount of money to do things with.
    - ghostly_s 5y ago
      Because despite all the problems, there is at least a glimmer of a hope that an artist's estate will act in the interest of preserving their patron's legacy.
  - revolvingocelot 5y ago
    GabeN's personal financial stake in Valve likely realizes much more in the way of a) cashflow and b) control than any rocker's relationship with their catalogs. Newell isn't the ageing rocker, smarting over the unfairness of the contract, he's the old-school cigar-chomping record executive, deigning to allow others to enrich him with their art. If he wants more money, he's just got to wait around for a bit. It'll arrive presently.

tombert 5y ago

Forgive a bit of ignorance on my end...what has Tencent actually done? I know they own stake in Epic and I've heard there's controversy, but I don't know what it is.

mdoms 5y ago
There hasn't been any evidence that Tencent has influenced Epic, or have the power to do so. Sweeney has defended the rights of players and publishers on Epic to speak out against China and the CCP.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
gman83 5y ago
Well, they own WeChat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat#Controversies

mdoms 5y ago

Epic Founder and CEO Tim Sweeney has addressed this a number of times and so far given no reason to doubt it, > I’m the controlling shareholder in Epic Games, and have been since 1991. We have a number of outside investors now. Tencent is the largest. All of Epic’s investors our friends and partners. None can dictate decisions to Epic. None have access to Epic customer data. > Tencent is a Chinese company founded in 1998. CEO Pony Ma and the other co-founders played a lot of Unreal Tournament back then, and visited Epic in the early 2000’s. In 2012 Epic was looking to move to online games, and we invited Tencent in as an investor to help us. > I’ve never regretted it, and the recent anti-China rage doesn’t change that even slightly, as its completely unfounded. Epic has only had positive interactions with Tencent at all levels. > All of Epic’s big decisions are made here in the USA and as CEO I’m 100% responsible for them. I’m grateful for everyone who has spoken in support. I also read and respectfully consider all dissenting arguments of fact and principle. Just please keep it real. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1113963999287291905 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/111396399928729190... Although I completely agree with you that it's a shame to see yet another indie source get swallowed up by a big corporation.

AlexandrB 5y ago
I think it's naive to think that the opinion of a 40% shareholder has no influence on the CEO. Even if that just presents as a bias in their decision making. > Although I completely agree with you that it's a shame to see yet another indie source get swallowed up by a big corporation. For the record, I don't think that Tencent is any more evil than Disney, Sony, or Microsoft in this regard.
- mdoms 5y ago
  > I think it's naive to think that the opinion of a 40% shareholder has no influence on the CEO. Even if that just presents as a bias in their decision making. I'm more than willing to accept that I'm being naive. All I ask is some actual evidence of this influence/bias.
  - KerrAvon 5y ago

johnnyanmac 5y ago

Tencent as a game studio is even more hand-off than Epic. I haven't heard of any of their many acquisitions really being affected after purchase.