16 ms·

I can only assume they are keeping their powder dry, or working to limit casualties. I saw a video of a lady riding in a car beside a convoy, and then she thre

I can only assume they are keeping their powder dry, or working to limit casualties. I saw a video of a lady riding in a car beside a convoy, and then she threw a molotov and the driver sped off. If that were Iraq in 2003, she car probably would have been lit up.

AlwaysRock 5y ago
They have been bombing cities. I don't think they are trying to limit casualties.
- jeffreyrogers 5y ago
  There are always going to be civilian casualties in war, but it sure looks like they are trying to limit them. Would be worth comparing to other, similar conflicts. Surely a full scale air campaign would lead to more civilian casualties?
  - 3pt14159 5y ago
    Don't forget the decisions of individual soldiers here. If I were forced to drive a tank in a war I did not believe in and a babushka threw a pointless cocktail at me I would not retaliate. These individual actions in war add up.
    - squarefoot 5y ago
      Especially if there are good chances that the ones you have been ordered to shoot at could be relatives of you or some people close to you. A lot of Ukrainians and Russians are connected, that's another important factor.
  - selectodude 5y ago
    Russia is using thermobaric and cluster munitions in Kharkiv. I really just don't think that Russia has quite as many PGMs as we think and Russia is close enough to most of Ukraine that they can launch regular old rockets from safe territory on the ground.
    - mattnewton 5y ago
      Has the use of thermobarics been confirmed? I know they were spotted in the area and there was an explosion in Kharkiv, but it could have been gas pipelines that were hit, and I've also see that explaination for the explosion videos.
      - saiya-jin 5y ago
        Tons of pictures/videos of TOS-1 system, even one abandoned on some field. Now can I safely say its from current conflict and from Ukraine? Obviously not, but I personally lean to agree.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - chasd00 5y ago
        Thermobarics are standard issue fuel/air bombs correct? I thought they were specifically designed for anti-personnel use, are they banned or somehow out of the ordinary? I don't understand why it would be notable if they were used.
        mattnewton 5y ago
        I think using thermobarics on a city is potentially a serious escalation from hitting airports and other infrastructure, as they are designed to kill people, especially people in shelters. Because of the ability to rip air out of them, and from the surrounding to sustain longer explosions that penetrate deeper in openings and tunnels. My understanding is that they have an extremely wide blast radius that will kill people taking cover compared to the structural damage they dish out.
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    Yeah I agree with this - not sure it'll last but if you look at what the Russians did in Georgia, it's clear they're not in "maximal damage" mode yet. The longer this drags out, the worse it'll get for Ukrainian cities but that's my impression of the lack of bombardment from the skies too.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    They used a vacuum bomb. That's not a precise missle...
  - shepardrtc 5y ago
    > it sure looks like they are trying to limit them Just saw a video where they blew the leg off a civilian that was just standing in the road to block their advance.
  - chasd00 5y ago
    with Ukraine arming anyone who wants to be armed and conscripting all males between 18 and 60 the lines between civilian and soldier are becoming blurred. I saw a video of some kids in a car driving by a tank and throwing a molotov cocktail out the window. To me, they are no longer "civilians" and a legitimate target. It's surprising they lived long long enough to upload the video to social media.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  It could be the difference between individual soldiers and Russian commanders. Individual soldier is happy. He gets to back as his truck was destroyed. Missiles are targeted by more senior people.
- platinumrad 5y ago
  Without minimizing the awfulness of this invasion and the fact that it must be condemned, it is not nearly as brutal as Russian operations in Chechnya and Syria or the US-led coalition invasion of Iraq, likely because Ukranians are not nearly as much of a racial or cultural other to Russians as Chechens or Syrians. The greater ability of Ukrainians to gain coverage in both traditional and social media may also be a factor.
  - AlwaysRock 5y ago
    Yes. What the USA does to other countries is atrocious. It's likely the reason the USAs damage is worst is that we have far superior equipment to do damage. It's horrible and disgusting. But what does it have to do with what is happening in the Ukraine right now?
    - x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
      Because when the West is doing it, no one batts an eye and then devolves into a diatribe about "Freedom" and "Democracy". There are no sanctions, there is very little overt assistance given to our enemies. But when Russia does it we start toying with the idea of nuclear war and allowing groups to go over as foreign fighters.
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    Thank you for articulating this better than I could. You had a CBS* commentator straight up saying this is different than Middle East wars since Kyiv is a " civilized city". That said, I think much of Russia's restraint is due to their end goal. Ukraine's Russian backed president was outted in a coup back in 2014. The new pro West leadership decided to go dancing with John McCain. This entire conflict could of been avoided if we didn't keep trying to expand NATO. I know I'm not enlisting if the Russians invade Poland tomorrow, but the existence of NATO implies I am. It's not hard to imagine if Haiti had a US backed leader, who was removed in a coup and then replaced with a pro Russia / pro China president. Now imagine China and Russia announcing plans for various military bases on Haiti. The Russians could finally have a warm water port. In no universe would America accept Haiti having a right to its own foreign policy. We don't want anyone else playing in our backyard. To be clear, this doesn't justify a stronger country imposing it's will upon a weaker one. This is worth a read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars * CBS not CNN
- csee 5y ago
  They are limiting casualities. The bombing of civilians is on purpose, but the purpose is to get negotiating leverage and break will, not to kill as many civilians as possible.
wildzzz 5y ago
It was an armored vehicle being pulled by what looked like a tractor. I don't think it was in any condition to fire on the car.
- DavidPeiffer 5y ago
  Those are two separate videos. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-molotov-cocktails-russia-tanks-b2025849.html?amp https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-molo...
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Look closely at 0:04 and you can see the armored vehicle under tow, though, in the molotov video.
    - geoka9 5y ago
      The tractor has a Z painted on it? It doesn't look like military, but that's what the Russians are painting on their armor.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        I'd expect the Russians are commandeering civilian tractors, and you'd paint recognition symbols on it when you do.
  - geuis 5y ago
    That video player didn't work for some reason.
uhtred 5y ago
I thought the same thing when I saw that video - how the heck did the people in the car survive that?

AlwaysRock 5y ago

They have been bombing cities. I don't think they are trying to limit casualties.

jeffreyrogers 5y ago
There are always going to be civilian casualties in war, but it sure looks like they are trying to limit them. Would be worth comparing to other, similar conflicts. Surely a full scale air campaign would lead to more civilian casualties?
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  Don't forget the decisions of individual soldiers here. If I were forced to drive a tank in a war I did not believe in and a babushka threw a pointless cocktail at me I would not retaliate. These individual actions in war add up.
  - squarefoot 5y ago
    Especially if there are good chances that the ones you have been ordered to shoot at could be relatives of you or some people close to you. A lot of Ukrainians and Russians are connected, that's another important factor.
- selectodude 5y ago
  Russia is using thermobaric and cluster munitions in Kharkiv. I really just don't think that Russia has quite as many PGMs as we think and Russia is close enough to most of Ukraine that they can launch regular old rockets from safe territory on the ground.
  - mattnewton 5y ago
    Has the use of thermobarics been confirmed? I know they were spotted in the area and there was an explosion in Kharkiv, but it could have been gas pipelines that were hit, and I've also see that explaination for the explosion videos.
    - saiya-jin 5y ago
      Tons of pictures/videos of TOS-1 system, even one abandoned on some field. Now can I safely say its from current conflict and from Ukraine? Obviously not, but I personally lean to agree.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - chasd00 5y ago
      Thermobarics are standard issue fuel/air bombs correct? I thought they were specifically designed for anti-personnel use, are they banned or somehow out of the ordinary? I don't understand why it would be notable if they were used.
      - mattnewton 5y ago
        I think using thermobarics on a city is potentially a serious escalation from hitting airports and other infrastructure, as they are designed to kill people, especially people in shelters. Because of the ability to rip air out of them, and from the surrounding to sustain longer explosions that penetrate deeper in openings and tunnels. My understanding is that they have an extremely wide blast radius that will kill people taking cover compared to the structural damage they dish out.
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  Yeah I agree with this - not sure it'll last but if you look at what the Russians did in Georgia, it's clear they're not in "maximal damage" mode yet. The longer this drags out, the worse it'll get for Ukrainian cities but that's my impression of the lack of bombardment from the skies too.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  They used a vacuum bomb. That's not a precise missle...
- shepardrtc 5y ago
  > it sure looks like they are trying to limit them Just saw a video where they blew the leg off a civilian that was just standing in the road to block their advance.
- chasd00 5y ago
  with Ukraine arming anyone who wants to be armed and conscripting all males between 18 and 60 the lines between civilian and soldier are becoming blurred. I saw a video of some kids in a car driving by a tank and throwing a molotov cocktail out the window. To me, they are no longer "civilians" and a legitimate target. It's surprising they lived long long enough to upload the video to social media.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
MattGaiser 5y ago
It could be the difference between individual soldiers and Russian commanders. Individual soldier is happy. He gets to back as his truck was destroyed. Missiles are targeted by more senior people.
platinumrad 5y ago
Without minimizing the awfulness of this invasion and the fact that it must be condemned, it is not nearly as brutal as Russian operations in Chechnya and Syria or the US-led coalition invasion of Iraq, likely because Ukranians are not nearly as much of a racial or cultural other to Russians as Chechens or Syrians. The greater ability of Ukrainians to gain coverage in both traditional and social media may also be a factor.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  Yes. What the USA does to other countries is atrocious. It's likely the reason the USAs damage is worst is that we have far superior equipment to do damage. It's horrible and disgusting. But what does it have to do with what is happening in the Ukraine right now?
  - x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
    Because when the West is doing it, no one batts an eye and then devolves into a diatribe about "Freedom" and "Democracy". There are no sanctions, there is very little overt assistance given to our enemies. But when Russia does it we start toying with the idea of nuclear war and allowing groups to go over as foreign fighters.
- 999900000999 5y ago
  Thank you for articulating this better than I could. You had a CBS* commentator straight up saying this is different than Middle East wars since Kyiv is a " civilized city". That said, I think much of Russia's restraint is due to their end goal. Ukraine's Russian backed president was outted in a coup back in 2014. The new pro West leadership decided to go dancing with John McCain. This entire conflict could of been avoided if we didn't keep trying to expand NATO. I know I'm not enlisting if the Russians invade Poland tomorrow, but the existence of NATO implies I am. It's not hard to imagine if Haiti had a US backed leader, who was removed in a coup and then replaced with a pro Russia / pro China president. Now imagine China and Russia announcing plans for various military bases on Haiti. The Russians could finally have a warm water port. In no universe would America accept Haiti having a right to its own foreign policy. We don't want anyone else playing in our backyard. To be clear, this doesn't justify a stronger country imposing it's will upon a weaker one. This is worth a read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars * CBS not CNN
csee 5y ago
They are limiting casualities. The bombing of civilians is on purpose, but the purpose is to get negotiating leverage and break will, not to kill as many civilians as possible.

wildzzz 5y ago

It was an armored vehicle being pulled by what looked like a tractor. I don't think it was in any condition to fire on the car.

DavidPeiffer 5y ago
Those are two separate videos. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-molotov-cocktails-russia-tanks-b2025849.html?amp https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-molo...
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Look closely at 0:04 and you can see the armored vehicle under tow, though, in the molotov video.
  - geoka9 5y ago
    The tractor has a Z painted on it? It doesn't look like military, but that's what the Russians are painting on their armor.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      I'd expect the Russians are commandeering civilian tractors, and you'd paint recognition symbols on it when you do.
- geuis 5y ago
  That video player didn't work for some reason.

uhtred 5y ago

I thought the same thing when I saw that video - how the heck did the people in the car survive that?