3 ms·

Many in the scientific community claim there is no evidence HIV is actually causing AIDS. Hence, even if this is a successful vaccine, there is no guarantee it

Many in the scientific community claim there is no evidence HIV is actually causing AIDS. Hence, even if this is a successful vaccine, there is no guarantee it will protect from AIDS.

falcolas 15y ago
[citation needed] First I've ever heard of anything like this.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  I've heard it before... unfortunately. It is well within "nutjob territory". It's a fair statement to say that no credible scientist in the field honestly believes this.
- MaxGabriel 15y ago
  I heard about this when reading the (non-peer reviewed) journal Medical Hypotheses http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/official-italian-data-no-causal-connection-between-hiv-and-aids/ http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/official-italian-... However, the article was withdrawn by Medical Hypotheses later http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/09/pity_poor_peter_duesberg_even_medical_hy.php http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/09/pity_poor_peter_du...
- davidmathers 15y ago
  It was a late 80's / early 90's thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesberg_hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesberg_hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_denialism#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_denialism#History
  - Symmetry 15y ago
    Well, it was a late 80s / early 90s thing among people who weren't crackpots. As evidenced by the OP, some people are reluctant to abandon the idea even though there is now overwhelming evidence against it.
- AlexandrB 15y ago
  Unfortunately this idea seems more widespread than most people think. I know of 2 documentaries promoting this idea [1], and it still has it's followers. Of these, the scariest is probably the former president of South Africa [2]. Of all the pseudoscience and conspiracy theories in the world, I think this one bugs me the most, primarily because it has a real cost in human lives [3] (unlike moon landing or JFK conspiracies). Hopefully if/when a reliable vaccine is found, HIV can be wiped out for good and this will no longer be an issue. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side_of_AIDS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side_of_AIDS [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thabo_Mbeki#AIDS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thabo_Mbeki#AIDS [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Maggiore#Eliza_Jane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Maggiore#Eliza_Jane
phillmv 15y ago
What the fuck? Are these the same scientists who don't believe in global warming?
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  I'm not sure about global warming, but last time I read about this there was an overlap between HIV->AIDS "deniers" and Holocaust "deniers". Then again, Michelle Bachmann can speak in a public forum and decry an HPV vaccine as "slut juice" and the next day cite revoked not-even-psuedo science as vaccines causing mental retardation, so I think there's something to be said for some scientific opinions or observations being more sound than others. (ie: the ones that actually employ the scientific method with some genuine modicum of effort.
  - drivebyacct2 15y ago
    (sorry, this is totally inappropriate), but "el-oh-el" at people downvoting this. Are you in support of blatant lies and pseudo science or holocaust denying aids denying scientists?)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
crux 15y ago
This claim is made by a discredited minority. 'Many' is quite the overstatement.
scarmig 15y ago
This is both scientifically inaccurate and potentially murderous. Rejecting science when it comes to things like evolution is an annoying tic, but whatever. What you're saying, though, is a stance that's literally killing millions of people in Africa. Before you say these things lightly, think about it for a few minutes.
- JVerstry 15y ago
  Two answers to your post: i) Here is a recent analysis of existing evidence: http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/hiv-has-never-been-isolated-from-aids-patients/ http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/hiv-has-never-bee.... ii) A prize of $100.000 "was officially offered to anybody who would demonstrate HIV particles in the blood of allegedly high viral load patients". It has not been claimed yet. So far, there is ground for a reasonable scientific doubt regarding claiming that HIV causes AIDS. The accumulated evidence is not conclusive unfortunately.
  - CamperBob 15y ago
    The accumulated evidence is not conclusive unfortunately. Kind of funny that people with AIDS tend to, you know, live, when HIV-targeting drugs are administered. Just one of those weird coincidences, I guess.
febeling 15y ago
I'm not convinced that there is much reason to doubt the HIV-causation of AIDS, I'm a bit put off about the way a dissenter is dealt with here. "What you're saying, though, is a stance that's literally killing millions of people in Africa. Before you say these things lightly, think about it for a few minutes." "This claim is made by a discredited minority." I don't think there is anything wrong with not believing, but rather questioning and examining a scientific assumption. Also when it is held by the majority. And to attack people directly, making them look stupid, evil or irresponsible is certainly no going to convince them. I found this text [1] which encourages to question orthodoxy, but also shows very clearly why in the case of AIDS/HIV there is overwhelming evidence for causation. It makes clear note that there is not a proof. 1 http://www.avert.org/hiv-causes-aids.htm http://www.avert.org/hiv-causes-aids.htm

Many in the scientific community claim there is no evidence HIV is actually causing AIDS. Hence, even if this is a successful vaccine, there is no guarantee it will protect from AIDS.

falcolas 15y ago

[citation needed] First I've ever heard of anything like this.

burgerbrain 15y ago
I've heard it before... unfortunately. It is well within "nutjob territory". It's a fair statement to say that no credible scientist in the field honestly believes this.
MaxGabriel 15y ago
I heard about this when reading the (non-peer reviewed) journal Medical Hypotheses http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/official-italian-data-no-causal-connection-between-hiv-and-aids/ http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/official-italian-... However, the article was withdrawn by Medical Hypotheses later http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/09/pity_poor_peter_duesberg_even_medical_hy.php http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/09/pity_poor_peter_du...
davidmathers 15y ago
It was a late 80's / early 90's thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesberg_hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesberg_hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_denialism#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_denialism#History
- Symmetry 15y ago
  Well, it was a late 80s / early 90s thing among people who weren't crackpots. As evidenced by the OP, some people are reluctant to abandon the idea even though there is now overwhelming evidence against it.
AlexandrB 15y ago
Unfortunately this idea seems more widespread than most people think. I know of 2 documentaries promoting this idea [1], and it still has it's followers. Of these, the scariest is probably the former president of South Africa [2]. Of all the pseudoscience and conspiracy theories in the world, I think this one bugs me the most, primarily because it has a real cost in human lives [3] (unlike moon landing or JFK conspiracies). Hopefully if/when a reliable vaccine is found, HIV can be wiped out for good and this will no longer be an issue. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side_of_AIDS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side_of_AIDS [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thabo_Mbeki#AIDS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thabo_Mbeki#AIDS [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Maggiore#Eliza_Jane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Maggiore#Eliza_Jane

phillmv 15y ago

What the fuck? Are these the same scientists who don't believe in global warming?

drivebyacct2 15y ago
I'm not sure about global warming, but last time I read about this there was an overlap between HIV->AIDS "deniers" and Holocaust "deniers". Then again, Michelle Bachmann can speak in a public forum and decry an HPV vaccine as "slut juice" and the next day cite revoked not-even-psuedo science as vaccines causing mental retardation, so I think there's something to be said for some scientific opinions or observations being more sound than others. (ie: the ones that actually employ the scientific method with some genuine modicum of effort.
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  (sorry, this is totally inappropriate), but "el-oh-el" at people downvoting this. Are you in support of blatant lies and pseudo science or holocaust denying aids denying scientists?)
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

crux 15y ago

This claim is made by a discredited minority. 'Many' is quite the overstatement.

scarmig 15y ago

This is both scientifically inaccurate and potentially murderous. Rejecting science when it comes to things like evolution is an annoying tic, but whatever. What you're saying, though, is a stance that's literally killing millions of people in Africa. Before you say these things lightly, think about it for a few minutes.

JVerstry 15y ago
Two answers to your post: i) Here is a recent analysis of existing evidence: http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/hiv-has-never-been-isolated-from-aids-patients/ http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/hiv-has-never-bee.... ii) A prize of $100.000 "was officially offered to anybody who would demonstrate HIV particles in the blood of allegedly high viral load patients". It has not been claimed yet. So far, there is ground for a reasonable scientific doubt regarding claiming that HIV causes AIDS. The accumulated evidence is not conclusive unfortunately.
- CamperBob 15y ago
  The accumulated evidence is not conclusive unfortunately. Kind of funny that people with AIDS tend to, you know, live, when HIV-targeting drugs are administered. Just one of those weird coincidences, I guess.

febeling 15y ago

I'm not convinced that there is much reason to doubt the HIV-causation of AIDS, I'm a bit put off about the way a dissenter is dealt with here. "What you're saying, though, is a stance that's literally killing millions of people in Africa. Before you say these things lightly, think about it for a few minutes." "This claim is made by a discredited minority." I don't think there is anything wrong with not believing, but rather questioning and examining a scientific assumption. Also when it is held by the majority. And to attack people directly, making them look stupid, evil or irresponsible is certainly no going to convince them. I found this text [1] which encourages to question orthodoxy, but also shows very clearly why in the case of AIDS/HIV there is overwhelming evidence for causation. It makes clear note that there is not a proof. 1 http://www.avert.org/hiv-causes-aids.htm http://www.avert.org/hiv-causes-aids.htm