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It seems like more and more companies are doing this. Kind of concerning. Is true FOSS going to fade away one day? Chromium no longer has sync, so we currentl

It seems like more and more companies are doing this. Kind of concerning. Is true FOSS going to fade away one day? Chromium no longer has sync, so we currently have no usable browsers that support Google's stuff. The last 15 years of open source progress seems to have been driven by big companies rather than the community. Community driven FOSS doesn't even seem like a reasonable idea at all given how much work it is, and how completely thankless it is, so most of what we get there is just "scratch your own itch" type stuff, often fairly useless outside a really specific use case, rather than the real pro-grade packages. Arch seems to be eating some of Debian's dev base, and Arch is built from the ground up for highly customized "just enough" setups. It seems like the community mostly just cares about privacy and tinkering these days. What's going to happen to the "Windows-like" side of FOSS?

ahelwer 5y ago
I don't know, there are a few companies I've seen around lately that have an open source "core" with proprietary business add-ons. Teleport and Tailscale for example. The Tailscale CEO wrote a post about it recently that got traction on here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29736369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29736369
ertian 5y ago
I think it's a bit of a pendulum. The enthusiasm and excitement for open source was largely driven by the locked-down environment of the time. Access to source and high-quality free software with source was an exhilarating novelty. But now we're kind of saturated, and used to it. Practically everything is free, it's not exciting anymore. New open source projects feel like just a drop in the bucket. Creators don't get the same sense of accomplishment from releasing new code. It may be necessary for a whole new generation to experience how shitty it is to be stuck with for-pay locked-down software that gradually rots beneath you, juggling library licences, phoning IT help lines for trivial problems, and having to ship every few years to some new (expensive) hotness.
johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago
> Chromium no longer has sync, so we currently have no usable browsers that support Google's stuff. Yes, Google has been not only anti-competitive, also very anti-FOSS. Google has been slowly making Chromium project more closed source. The original article of this thread is an evidence of Google's harmful effects on FOSS eco-system. Now other companies are also retreating on their open source effort because of Google.
MaxBarraclough 5y ago
> Is true FOSS going to fade away one day? There's no indication of this. > Chromium no longer has sync, so we currently have no usable browsers that support Google's stuff. I don't follow. Why do you consider Firefox and Chromium to be unusable? > What's going to happen to the "Windows-like" side of FOSS? KDE is doing well.
- eternityforest 5y ago
  Chromium doesn't have sync. That's enough right there that I wouldn't consider using it. Firefox is usable-ish but they reject a lot of Google's tech, and seem to have no interest in the modern vision if the web. Even on some safe features they're years behind. Brave is mostly open, but they have started following FF, actively removing Google's features from Chromium rather than adding permission toggles. You would think that the app people use the most would be top notch in the FOSS world, but we have very few FOSS options, all with the same Mozilla philosophy, except Chromium which is getting closer to being a reference implementation rather than a usable browser. Meanwhile closed chromium browsers like Vivaldi and Chrome itself are pretty great.
  - MaxBarraclough 5y ago
    > Chromium doesn't have sync. That's enough right there that I wouldn't consider using it. Personally I've never used the sync features of any browser. Can't that kind of thing be done with an extension? > Firefox is usable-ish but they reject a lot of Google's tech, and seem to have no interest in the modern vision if the web. Even on some safe features they're years behind. In my experience, Firefox works fine, despite Mozilla's long history of atrocious decisions. Its performance is competitive with Chromium (the winner depends on the benchmark/website). Compatibility issues do occur but are rare. What do you mean by no interest in the modern vision if the web?
    - eternityforest 5y ago
      Nothing can be done with an extension because extensions don't exist on mobile browsers. I hear FF might get them but I doubt Chromium will for a while. Chromium seems to want to be an apps platform with full desktop power. Everything from web serial to the battery status API, yo keyboard layout stuff, gets either summarily axed, nerfed, or at best begrudgingly added after a long time. Mozilla doesn't do permission prompts or settings. Their priority seems to be getting rid of all ability to do tracking even at the expense of real use cases.

ahelwer 5y ago

I don't know, there are a few companies I've seen around lately that have an open source "core" with proprietary business add-ons. Teleport and Tailscale for example. The Tailscale CEO wrote a post about it recently that got traction on here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29736369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29736369

ertian 5y ago

I think it's a bit of a pendulum. The enthusiasm and excitement for open source was largely driven by the locked-down environment of the time. Access to source and high-quality free software with source was an exhilarating novelty. But now we're kind of saturated, and used to it. Practically everything is free, it's not exciting anymore. New open source projects feel like just a drop in the bucket. Creators don't get the same sense of accomplishment from releasing new code. It may be necessary for a whole new generation to experience how shitty it is to be stuck with for-pay locked-down software that gradually rots beneath you, juggling library licences, phoning IT help lines for trivial problems, and having to ship every few years to some new (expensive) hotness.

johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago

> Chromium no longer has sync, so we currently have no usable browsers that support Google's stuff. Yes, Google has been not only anti-competitive, also very anti-FOSS. Google has been slowly making Chromium project more closed source. The original article of this thread is an evidence of Google's harmful effects on FOSS eco-system. Now other companies are also retreating on their open source effort because of Google.

MaxBarraclough 5y ago

> Is true FOSS going to fade away one day? There's no indication of this. > Chromium no longer has sync, so we currently have no usable browsers that support Google's stuff. I don't follow. Why do you consider Firefox and Chromium to be unusable? > What's going to happen to the "Windows-like" side of FOSS? KDE is doing well.

eternityforest 5y ago
Chromium doesn't have sync. That's enough right there that I wouldn't consider using it. Firefox is usable-ish but they reject a lot of Google's tech, and seem to have no interest in the modern vision if the web. Even on some safe features they're years behind. Brave is mostly open, but they have started following FF, actively removing Google's features from Chromium rather than adding permission toggles. You would think that the app people use the most would be top notch in the FOSS world, but we have very few FOSS options, all with the same Mozilla philosophy, except Chromium which is getting closer to being a reference implementation rather than a usable browser. Meanwhile closed chromium browsers like Vivaldi and Chrome itself are pretty great.
- MaxBarraclough 5y ago
  > Chromium doesn't have sync. That's enough right there that I wouldn't consider using it. Personally I've never used the sync features of any browser. Can't that kind of thing be done with an extension? > Firefox is usable-ish but they reject a lot of Google's tech, and seem to have no interest in the modern vision if the web. Even on some safe features they're years behind. In my experience, Firefox works fine, despite Mozilla's long history of atrocious decisions. Its performance is competitive with Chromium (the winner depends on the benchmark/website). Compatibility issues do occur but are rare. What do you mean by no interest in the modern vision if the web?
  - eternityforest 5y ago
    Nothing can be done with an extension because extensions don't exist on mobile browsers. I hear FF might get them but I doubt Chromium will for a while. Chromium seems to want to be an apps platform with full desktop power. Everything from web serial to the battery status API, yo keyboard layout stuff, gets either summarily axed, nerfed, or at best begrudgingly added after a long time. Mozilla doesn't do permission prompts or settings. Their priority seems to be getting rid of all ability to do tracking even at the expense of real use cases.