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yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR.

by TMWNN 5y ago

fmajid 5y ago
Your misplaced faith in the competence of the CIA is almost adorable. Small countries like Israel or Ukraine actually have to have competent intelligence services because their survival depends on it.
acdha 5y ago
Which is a pretty bold claim, completely unsupported by evidence. The Ukraine has a ton of highly-proficient very online people, the idea that they need shadowy outside help seems like an attack more than a serious claim.
- dannyw 5y ago
  Come on, you literally think the Central Intelligence Agency, the poster child for psy-ops, is not doing psy-ops right now??? That's like saying there's no evidence the NSA has saved this exact message in Xkeyscore.
  - watwut 5y ago
    Which is entirely different claim then "CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR".
  - drran 5y ago
    CIA cannot defend USA from Russian propaganda. CIA are noobs in this war. They used our (Ukrainian) help to catch Russians. I know Russians inside out. I have 15+ years of experience in defending of Ukrainian informational space. Who has more years of experience than me? Nobody.
  - acdha 5y ago
    Them doing anything is not the same as them doing everything, as claimed. This shows every sign of being a lot of organic activity and the Ukrainian government – unsurprising as they have entire groups whose job it is to do this and more people who are mother-tongue fluent in Russian. This illustrates the danger of conspiracy theory thinking: you’ve got yourself arguing a more complicated explanation with absolutely no evidence, and if we’re going by institutional reputations as portrayed by Hollywood wouldn’t the same logic have lead you to expect a massive Russian counter-campaign?
- baq 5y ago
  They do. But if you believe they don't get help from western intelligence agencies, you're looking the other way.
  - acdha 5y ago
    Help is not “running”. I’d want some evidence at all for that, especially given how quickly this happened.
- VictorPath 5y ago
  Who was handing out cookies in Maidan Square during the Euromaidan? Just the tip of the iceberg of the outside help. In another forum, someone said to watch for the coming "let's roll" vignettes. Of course they were right, the US corporate press seems to be looking for narratives of heroic Ukrainian resistance, whatever the evidence - the defiant Snake Island defenders (who there later emerged video of them surrendering and Ukrainian officials saying they may still be alive), the Ghost of Kyiv fighter ace (who does seem like an actual ghost) and on and on. Of course it's difficult to verify the facts of these heroic narratives spun from rumor and propaganda during the fog of war, where the first casualty is the truth. There are also many reports from almost the first day about how the Russian military is on its last legs and so forth, which sounds absurd. There may be one or two small there's there, but from US corporate media reports you'd think they were on the verge of defeat. Kind of like how the NLF were said to be on their last legs in 1968, prior to the Tet Offensive.
  - acdha 5y ago
    > Who was handing out cookies in Maidan Square during the Euromaidan? Just the tip of the iceberg of the outside help. Yes, who was? (Hint: not the CIA) You’re talking about Victoria Nuland, who was assistant Secretary of State at the time. She visited the protests at the time her boss was decrying the treatment of protesters and openly voiced support for democracy as opposed to how Yanukovich’s government was treating them. She helped distribute food – the cookies claim is a tell that you spend a lot of time consuming Russian propaganda since they’ve tried to spin this as America wanting compliant Ukrainian lapdogs - but that’s hardly a secret: all of this was in public in her official capacity, hardly some shadowy CIA plot.
    - VictorPath 5y ago
      > the cookies claim is a tell that you spend a lot of time consuming Russian propaganda It's not a claim, there's video of her doing it. So "Russian propaganda" means a video of a US assistant of secretary of state handing out cookies in the Maidan Square where the Azov battalion etc. were overthrowing the elected Ukrainian government.
kergonath 5y ago
Wait, I thought it was the reptilians.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jpmoral 5y ago
Doesn't seem like it to (untrained) me. Maybe if it were ham-handed and on-the-nose.
ppg677 5y ago
You vastly overestimate the competence of the CIA.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR. Ukraine's PR is much better than CIA/MI6’s own PR. OTOH, I bet they and other Western intelligence service are feeding Ukraine Intel that is instrumental in both the material (compared to expectations) and PR success that Ukraine is having.

yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR.

by TMWNN 5y ago

yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR.

Your misplaced faith in the competence of the CIA is almost adorable. Small countries like Israel or Ukraine actually have to have competent intelligence services because their survival depends on it.

acdha 5y ago

Which is a pretty bold claim, completely unsupported by evidence. The Ukraine has a ton of highly-proficient very online people, the idea that they need shadowy outside help seems like an attack more than a serious claim.

dannyw 5y ago
Come on, you literally think the Central Intelligence Agency, the poster child for psy-ops, is not doing psy-ops right now??? That's like saying there's no evidence the NSA has saved this exact message in Xkeyscore.
- watwut 5y ago
  Which is entirely different claim then "CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR".
- drran 5y ago
  CIA cannot defend USA from Russian propaganda. CIA are noobs in this war. They used our (Ukrainian) help to catch Russians. I know Russians inside out. I have 15+ years of experience in defending of Ukrainian informational space. Who has more years of experience than me? Nobody.
- acdha 5y ago
  Them doing anything is not the same as them doing everything, as claimed. This shows every sign of being a lot of organic activity and the Ukrainian government – unsurprising as they have entire groups whose job it is to do this and more people who are mother-tongue fluent in Russian. This illustrates the danger of conspiracy theory thinking: you’ve got yourself arguing a more complicated explanation with absolutely no evidence, and if we’re going by institutional reputations as portrayed by Hollywood wouldn’t the same logic have lead you to expect a massive Russian counter-campaign?
baq 5y ago
They do. But if you believe they don't get help from western intelligence agencies, you're looking the other way.
- acdha 5y ago
  Help is not “running”. I’d want some evidence at all for that, especially given how quickly this happened.
VictorPath 5y ago
Who was handing out cookies in Maidan Square during the Euromaidan? Just the tip of the iceberg of the outside help. In another forum, someone said to watch for the coming "let's roll" vignettes. Of course they were right, the US corporate press seems to be looking for narratives of heroic Ukrainian resistance, whatever the evidence - the defiant Snake Island defenders (who there later emerged video of them surrendering and Ukrainian officials saying they may still be alive), the Ghost of Kyiv fighter ace (who does seem like an actual ghost) and on and on. Of course it's difficult to verify the facts of these heroic narratives spun from rumor and propaganda during the fog of war, where the first casualty is the truth. There are also many reports from almost the first day about how the Russian military is on its last legs and so forth, which sounds absurd. There may be one or two small there's there, but from US corporate media reports you'd think they were on the verge of defeat. Kind of like how the NLF were said to be on their last legs in 1968, prior to the Tet Offensive.
- acdha 5y ago
  > Who was handing out cookies in Maidan Square during the Euromaidan? Just the tip of the iceberg of the outside help. Yes, who was? (Hint: not the CIA) You’re talking about Victoria Nuland, who was assistant Secretary of State at the time. She visited the protests at the time her boss was decrying the treatment of protesters and openly voiced support for democracy as opposed to how Yanukovich’s government was treating them. She helped distribute food – the cookies claim is a tell that you spend a lot of time consuming Russian propaganda since they’ve tried to spin this as America wanting compliant Ukrainian lapdogs - but that’s hardly a secret: all of this was in public in her official capacity, hardly some shadowy CIA plot.
  - VictorPath 5y ago
    > the cookies claim is a tell that you spend a lot of time consuming Russian propaganda It's not a claim, there's video of her doing it. So "Russian propaganda" means a video of a US assistant of secretary of state handing out cookies in the Maidan Square where the Azov battalion etc. were overthrowing the elected Ukrainian government.

kergonath 5y ago

Wait, I thought it was the reptilians.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jpmoral 5y ago

Doesn't seem like it to (untrained) me. Maybe if it were ham-handed and on-the-nose.

ppg677 5y ago

You vastly overestimate the competence of the CIA.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR. Ukraine's PR is much better than CIA/MI6’s own PR. OTOH, I bet they and other Western intelligence service are feeding Ukraine Intel that is instrumental in both the material (compared to expectations) and PR success that Ukraine is having.