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Much of what the English speaking elite in India & much of the west consumes as a theory on caste is a handiwork of a colonial-evangelist mission. So much of i

Much of what the English speaking elite in India & much of the west consumes as a theory on caste is a handiwork of a colonial-evangelist mission. So much of it has to be taken with a boatload of salt. Since it is politically incorrect to challenge the established views, one simply has to rely on ones own observation. Especially if they are missing the woods for the trees on these debates. It is very much in line with the western debates on race inequality, feminism or gender pronouns. Those claiming to fight these inequalities, intentionally or unintentionally create more fissures and distrust. And unlike the western world where there has been a systemic slavery or persecution of indigenous population, in India there are literally thousands of castes and not always a clear idea of hierarchy. The hierarchy was mostly an academic theory built on flimsy propaganda. Also the very same people who see privilege among sections of the Hindus are completely blind to the privilege of Christians or Muslims, considering that large parts of India have been under Islamic and Christian colonisation for several centuries. And Hindus have faced the same kind of violence from these two groups as much of the rest of the world. In a way caste might have been the social glue that allowed the indigenous people to put up a fight and maintain their Hindu identity. There is a strong correlation between caste and economic mobility & urbanisation. The ones who preserve their caste the most are ones who can gain some privileges in the form of vote banks, social security or class benefits, this easily excludes 90% of the urban educated masses. In a country of 1.4 billion, sure there are large swathes of population still behest with the caste problem, but also in a country where 1/3 of the people are malnourished and have stunted growth, caste is hardly the biggest problem and might actually be a evolved social survival mechanism.

dash2 5y ago
That’s all very well but it’s pretty obvious that Dalits get a raw deal in India, and if you don’t think so, then you may just be kidding yourself. Equally, if you think of Muslims as “privileged” under the current BJP government, you need a reality check.
- mama123 5y ago
  Many Poor muslims just as many poor Indian are now getting electricity, subsidised toilets, zero balance bank accounts, direct benefits transfer for the first time under BJP rule. Many muslim women are for the first time are freed from triple talaq. Their life is certainly far better than the muslims in Pakistan, so much so that many parts of Pakistan are revolting and claiming to want to reunite with India. Whatever your claims of muslim persecution is mostly manufactured. In may ways the more radical elements are testing the limits of the patience of the citizens. I wish India would follow the west and start De-Arabising the muslim population, after all each community has their unique dress and culture.
  - thowaway_2mar 5y ago
    Don't argue with upper caste muslims. I am a big admirer of Ali Anwar, founder of Pasmanda Muslim Mahaz. The hindu-muslim binary of the Indian poltics is the biggest issue lower caste muslims are facing today. Every issue is about Hindu and Muslim or Upper and Lower caste Hindus but None talks about the plight of the Dalit and Pasmanda lower caste Muslims. I know I will get downvoted by upper caste ashrafs and sayeed muslims but this it the trusth. Cast matters, even if you are a muslim in India. Lower caste pasmanda Muslims are not even allowed to bury their dead bodies with those of upper caste pure blood Muslims, who claim to be descendants of the prophet Mohammed. Ali Anwar despite being a Muslim was in the JD(U)-BJP alliance in Bihar. BJP is a Hindu-nationalist party that also bought some progressive changes in the Muslim community. I don't like BJP but sometimes even the devil does the right thing, banning triple-talaq was one of such positive things done to uplift oppressed Muslim women.
  - dash2 5y ago
    “The pattern of hate crimes committed against Muslims with seeming impunity – many of them in states where the Bharatiya Janata Party is in power – is deeply worrying. Unfortunately both the Prime Minister and various Chief Ministers have done little to show that they disapprove of this violence” https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/06/india-hate-crimes-against-muslims-and-rising-islamophobia-must-be-condemned-2/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/06/india-hate-cr... “ In December, Uttar Pradesh police arbitrarily arrested 10 Muslim men under a law introduced by the Uttar Pradesh Government that targets consensual interfaith marriages, and allegedly tortured them. The legislation, which has been termed the “love jihad” law by right-wing nationalists and leading politicians, had not been approved by the Indian Parliament or the state legislature.” “ The government accused members of the Muslim Tablighi Jamaat minority of spreading COVID-19, and as a result, health care facilities denied access to Muslims. Instances of hospitals refusing Muslim pregnant women and cancer patients surfaced in April 2020. In the months following the nationwide lockdown of March, social media and WhatsApp groups were flooded with calls for social and economic boycotts of Muslims, alongside fake news stories and other misinformation.” https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/south-asia/india/report-india/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/sou... And more. But why multiply examples?

dash2 5y ago

That’s all very well but it’s pretty obvious that Dalits get a raw deal in India, and if you don’t think so, then you may just be kidding yourself. Equally, if you think of Muslims as “privileged” under the current BJP government, you need a reality check.

mama123 5y ago
Many Poor muslims just as many poor Indian are now getting electricity, subsidised toilets, zero balance bank accounts, direct benefits transfer for the first time under BJP rule. Many muslim women are for the first time are freed from triple talaq. Their life is certainly far better than the muslims in Pakistan, so much so that many parts of Pakistan are revolting and claiming to want to reunite with India. Whatever your claims of muslim persecution is mostly manufactured. In may ways the more radical elements are testing the limits of the patience of the citizens. I wish India would follow the west and start De-Arabising the muslim population, after all each community has their unique dress and culture.
- thowaway_2mar 5y ago
  Don't argue with upper caste muslims. I am a big admirer of Ali Anwar, founder of Pasmanda Muslim Mahaz. The hindu-muslim binary of the Indian poltics is the biggest issue lower caste muslims are facing today. Every issue is about Hindu and Muslim or Upper and Lower caste Hindus but None talks about the plight of the Dalit and Pasmanda lower caste Muslims. I know I will get downvoted by upper caste ashrafs and sayeed muslims but this it the trusth. Cast matters, even if you are a muslim in India. Lower caste pasmanda Muslims are not even allowed to bury their dead bodies with those of upper caste pure blood Muslims, who claim to be descendants of the prophet Mohammed. Ali Anwar despite being a Muslim was in the JD(U)-BJP alliance in Bihar. BJP is a Hindu-nationalist party that also bought some progressive changes in the Muslim community. I don't like BJP but sometimes even the devil does the right thing, banning triple-talaq was one of such positive things done to uplift oppressed Muslim women.
- dash2 5y ago
  “The pattern of hate crimes committed against Muslims with seeming impunity – many of them in states where the Bharatiya Janata Party is in power – is deeply worrying. Unfortunately both the Prime Minister and various Chief Ministers have done little to show that they disapprove of this violence” https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/06/india-hate-crimes-against-muslims-and-rising-islamophobia-must-be-condemned-2/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/06/india-hate-cr... “ In December, Uttar Pradesh police arbitrarily arrested 10 Muslim men under a law introduced by the Uttar Pradesh Government that targets consensual interfaith marriages, and allegedly tortured them. The legislation, which has been termed the “love jihad” law by right-wing nationalists and leading politicians, had not been approved by the Indian Parliament or the state legislature.” “ The government accused members of the Muslim Tablighi Jamaat minority of spreading COVID-19, and as a result, health care facilities denied access to Muslims. Instances of hospitals refusing Muslim pregnant women and cancer patients surfaced in April 2020. In the months following the nationwide lockdown of March, social media and WhatsApp groups were flooded with calls for social and economic boycotts of Muslims, alongside fake news stories and other misinformation.” https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/south-asia/india/report-india/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/sou... And more. But why multiply examples?