4 ms·

Thought the same. This is the German wet dream.

by Mo3 5y ago

nosianu 5y ago
Having lived in the US for almost a decade, I did not see any less bureaucracy (for example, two tax returns - Germany is a federation too but I only need to file one). I also hear nightmare stories from other countries far surpassing anything we Germans could cook up, for example from India or from some African countries (not exclusively). "German bureaucracy" is a nice meme, I highly doubt that it even remotely reflects reality accurately. I don't mean that there isn't a lot, I mean that I doubt it's significantly or even any more than elsewhere. It's also highly subjective, depending on what part one is exposed to. Everybody only ever interacts with a tiny part of the overall system after all, and it very much depends on the context, so I doubt there can be a single answer that is meaningful except for media headline generation and effortless quick comment posting. Also, the exact same bureaucracy and rules can save effort, be good for society overall or even lives, or (and) it can be a great hindrance to progress, again depending on the exact context.
- Mo3 5y ago
  I doubt you have ever penetrated deep enough into the favorite German pastime. I have a dedicated Nextcloud just to store and maintain order in my postal communication. I‘ve moved to the Netherlands in recent days though and the difference is very notable.
  - nosianu 5y ago
    > I doubt you have ever penetrated deep enough into the favorite German pastime. You don't know me. Many years ago, early nineties, I worked in the kitchen of a New Jersey summer camp for over two months through a student exchange program. At one point I decided to show them what "German" and "order" really means. I cleaned up the large pantry. Before, it was what you expect when you hear the term. A somewhat dark place with lots of food stuff in a lot of shelves. When I was done it was a bright room with every single can and every single label of hundreds of different cans and packages aligned to within less than a millimeter with the edge of the shelve and with each other. Every single label pointed exactly forward. Nut a speck of dust anywhere, and light flooded the room and between shelves. The contrast between before and after was stark. The camp manager walked through and did not say a word. My work as an ambassador of German-ness was done :)
    - Mo3 5y ago
      Your passport is ready for pickup. Just be prepared to spend 5 hours for the paperwork
      - nosianu 5y ago
        I picked up my new German passport two weeks ago, It took less than ten minutes total. When I ordered it though - last October - I had to make an appointment just to order a new one - two months later, middle of December. Then it took 8 more weeks to actually get it. Still, I did not have to wait there for long. Also, this was all due to COVID measures. Without those there would not have been all those appointments for an appointment online registrations. The paperwork for getting a new one itself did not take long either . and I was a special complicated case. I had let my mandatory registration slip for over a decade. I was surprised - I got zero complaints and they just entered the residence data retroactively and that was all. I had thought I'd at least have to pay a fine, since I actually violated law.
        Mo3 5y ago
        Im joking. :)

Thought the same. This is the German wet dream.

by Mo3 5y ago

Thought the same. This is the German wet dream.

Having lived in the US for almost a decade, I did not see any less bureaucracy (for example, two tax returns - Germany is a federation too but I only need to file one). I also hear nightmare stories from other countries far surpassing anything we Germans could cook up, for example from India or from some African countries (not exclusively). "German bureaucracy" is a nice meme, I highly doubt that it even remotely reflects reality accurately. I don't mean that there isn't a lot, I mean that I doubt it's significantly or even any more than elsewhere. It's also highly subjective, depending on what part one is exposed to. Everybody only ever interacts with a tiny part of the overall system after all, and it very much depends on the context, so I doubt there can be a single answer that is meaningful except for media headline generation and effortless quick comment posting. Also, the exact same bureaucracy and rules can save effort, be good for society overall or even lives, or (and) it can be a great hindrance to progress, again depending on the exact context.

Mo3 5y ago
I doubt you have ever penetrated deep enough into the favorite German pastime. I have a dedicated Nextcloud just to store and maintain order in my postal communication. I‘ve moved to the Netherlands in recent days though and the difference is very notable.
- nosianu 5y ago
  > I doubt you have ever penetrated deep enough into the favorite German pastime. You don't know me. Many years ago, early nineties, I worked in the kitchen of a New Jersey summer camp for over two months through a student exchange program. At one point I decided to show them what "German" and "order" really means. I cleaned up the large pantry. Before, it was what you expect when you hear the term. A somewhat dark place with lots of food stuff in a lot of shelves. When I was done it was a bright room with every single can and every single label of hundreds of different cans and packages aligned to within less than a millimeter with the edge of the shelve and with each other. Every single label pointed exactly forward. Nut a speck of dust anywhere, and light flooded the room and between shelves. The contrast between before and after was stark. The camp manager walked through and did not say a word. My work as an ambassador of German-ness was done :)
  - Mo3 5y ago
    Your passport is ready for pickup. Just be prepared to spend 5 hours for the paperwork
    - nosianu 5y ago
      I picked up my new German passport two weeks ago, It took less than ten minutes total. When I ordered it though - last October - I had to make an appointment just to order a new one - two months later, middle of December. Then it took 8 more weeks to actually get it. Still, I did not have to wait there for long. Also, this was all due to COVID measures. Without those there would not have been all those appointments for an appointment online registrations. The paperwork for getting a new one itself did not take long either . and I was a special complicated case. I had let my mandatory registration slip for over a decade. I was surprised - I got zero complaints and they just entered the residence data retroactively and that was all. I had thought I'd at least have to pay a fine, since I actually violated law.
      - Mo3 5y ago
        Im joking. :)