4 ms·

The Future of Android/iOS Doesn't Matter. The Present Does.

5 points by AshFurrow 15y ago

drivebyacct2 15y ago
It's always the same story. The UI isn't good enough. And then when iOS users actually use an Android device, they find out that the UI has actually been rather decent since Gingerbread as the OS looks fairly svelte and most major app developers have managed to make their apps not suck. The back button, Activities, Intents are all things that non-Android users are nearly always completely ignorant of and how they affect usability of the device. Besides the title is a bit of flamebait. Who are we talking about when we say "it doesn't matter"? Investors, developers, users? They all have different considerations and different reasons for preferring various platforms with various outlooks. edit: Just like with navigation concerns, please actually try some apps. I am the first to admit that Android apps have lagged behind iOS apps in terms of beauty, but there are several that are now so good, I prefer them in terms of appearance. The stigma has stuck around for longer than I've found it to be true. As for stuttering issues, JIT, more ram and Gingerbread have made these largely non existent. (If only they didn't ship Launcher2, the community launchers are a much better experience. Go Launcher EX and stock Gingerbread is absolutely as fast as iOS, even while streaming from SubSonic, etc)
- alttag 15y ago
  The UI complaints I recall reading (not an Android user) focused not on the visuals, but on response feel, including complaints about UI "stutter", supposedly from the garbage collector or other background processes.
  - gks 15y ago
    Last time I used Android was 2.2 on a Nexus One. There were some stutter issues as I recall. But the biggest complaint wasn't the "look" really, it was much more so many inconsistencies from app to app. Every app just feels free to do and look and act differently than another. This means there's a lot more of a learning curve than iOS. One of my single biggest complaints UI-wise, was the menu button. Simple things that should be easy to accomplish were always hidden in that menu. I worked in a retail store that sold electronics and speaker products. One of those products allowed phones to play their music through it. People love the idea of Pandora. But nearly EVERY Android user couldn't figure out how to create more than one station on the device and told me they had to use their computer to do it. Now, maybe it isn't so hard to hit the menu button. But it effectively made major features hidden and put in a none-obvious way (by non-obvious I mean a good number of people weren't able to find it easily). That's the kind of UI issue I think Android has that iOS doesn't. iOS has some hidden things but those are _usually_ power user things and aren't required to make the app function normally.
tomcreighton 15y ago
Let me add this (possibly unpopular on HN?) opinion: I have never, ever seen an open-source project that begins to compare, purely in user experience, to a closed-source/commercial project. Not saying it can't happen, but the forces that push commercial dev and open source dev don't seem to be the same at all.
- Pewpewarrows 15y ago
  (Firefox & Chrome) vs IE /thread
- AshFurrow 15y ago
  What's really interesting is this applies to closed source solutions with a terrible user experience. PhotoShop is awful, but still better than the Gimp.
- tomjen3 15y ago
  Compare Emacs versus any other paid text editor (not ide). Personally I would say that Emacs has a much better UX. Remember UX doesn't just mean pretty corners and can be used by your grandmother (or Homers dad, if you grandmother is in fact awesome at computers) especially in the context of tools used daily. But I will grant you that is is often to always the case when the intended end user is someone who isn't a programmer.
  - cube13 15y ago
    >Compare Emacs versus any other paid text editor (not ide). Personally I would say that Emacs has a much better UX. If you want an OS over your OS. For those that don't, use Vi. </text editor wars>
    - AshFurrow 15y ago
      The Future of Emacs/Vi doesn't matter. The Present Does.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
martythemaniak 15y ago
yawn The same arguments haven been repeated for years. But let's talk briefly about "The Present". Considering the bulk of major new iOS features that Android had long before, (multitasking, drop-down notifications, cloud sync etc), the Android "Present" is always a few steps ahead and some of us like it that way. This isn't something iOS fans seemingly have a very hard time understanding. I can't wait until iOS gets voice actions/input and navigation. We won't hear the end of how incredibly new and innovative iOS is.
- gks 15y ago
  the voice actions/input you mention will likely go well beyond what Android currently offers. This is one of the things that most Android users seem to neglect understanding. Sure, iOS didn't get Copy and Paste first, nor did it get Multi-tasking first. But, what it did do (arguably) is take those two things and make them a lot more useful than the equivalent on Android. By arguably I am mostly discussing Multi-tasking, as the differences in opinion here vary person to person. Some people like the fact that Android can multi-task to the end of the earth, but dislike the fact battery issues become a real problem. Meanwhile other users are content giving up some of their multi-tasking freedom for better battery life. The same is going to be true of voice input on iOS. From the sounds of it, it will go well above and beyond what Android offers. The simple fact that the rumors (again, these could be wrong as we all know, so I'm speculating) indicate the iPhone 4S/5 are required for processing and ram reasons seem to tell us that the voice input part COULD be done entirely within iOS, not requiring the internet unless looking up internet enabled services (table reservation, weather, etc). The same is true of the "drop-down notifications" you mention. Sure, Android had it first. I don't think anyone has said otherwise. But the way they implemented it is a lot better. One, the notifications (if you want) pop up on the main lock screen. Swipe the app icon from left to right and it takes you to that notification. No need to unlock, swipe the menu at the top, click the notification. The ability to remove a single apps notifications from the tray as opposed to clearing all is another nice addition. The ability to determine which applications show up in the notification tray. If you choose, some apps can be pop-up dialog boxes like they are in iOS4, some can be just numbers near the app icon, while some can be in the notification tray. I don't see that in Android. Again, maybe some "skin" on top of Android can do these things, but that is half the problem not all Android devices will have these features. Sure, most of the people that argue Android is so awesome have no problem rooting and fiddling with their devices, but that will prevent mass market adoption if one of these features becomes a big deal right? Generally iOS provides a much better experience for users. There are some ways that Android is better, some ways that iOS is better. I don't think there's really anything wrong with that. But Android users seem to be so damn hell-bent on being better, "oh but Android is activating more devices" blah blah blah. Why can't everyone just shut the hell up and use what works for them instead of being dicks about it? Civil discussions are great, I think the original article for this story was a pretty civil discussion. Meanwhile, the hacker news discussion gets all pissy with people mindlessly arguing that their preferred OS is better. This I think is something you have a hard time understanding, sir.
MatthewPhillips 15y ago
> I brought up the topic of Android vs. iOS Why?
- AshFurrow 15y ago
  Because I only ever get to discuss the topic in flamewars online and speaking to an actual person was very refreshing.

5 points by AshFurrow 15y ago

It's always the same story. The UI isn't good enough. And then when iOS users actually use an Android device, they find out that the UI has actually been rather decent since Gingerbread as the OS looks fairly svelte and most major app developers have managed to make their apps not suck. The back button, Activities, Intents are all things that non-Android users are nearly always completely ignorant of and how they affect usability of the device. Besides the title is a bit of flamebait. Who are we talking about when we say "it doesn't matter"? Investors, developers, users? They all have different considerations and different reasons for preferring various platforms with various outlooks. edit: Just like with navigation concerns, please actually try some apps. I am the first to admit that Android apps have lagged behind iOS apps in terms of beauty, but there are several that are now so good, I prefer them in terms of appearance. The stigma has stuck around for longer than I've found it to be true. As for stuttering issues, JIT, more ram and Gingerbread have made these largely non existent. (If only they didn't ship Launcher2, the community launchers are a much better experience. Go Launcher EX and stock Gingerbread is absolutely as fast as iOS, even while streaming from SubSonic, etc)

alttag 15y ago
The UI complaints I recall reading (not an Android user) focused not on the visuals, but on response feel, including complaints about UI "stutter", supposedly from the garbage collector or other background processes.
- gks 15y ago
  Last time I used Android was 2.2 on a Nexus One. There were some stutter issues as I recall. But the biggest complaint wasn't the "look" really, it was much more so many inconsistencies from app to app. Every app just feels free to do and look and act differently than another. This means there's a lot more of a learning curve than iOS. One of my single biggest complaints UI-wise, was the menu button. Simple things that should be easy to accomplish were always hidden in that menu. I worked in a retail store that sold electronics and speaker products. One of those products allowed phones to play their music through it. People love the idea of Pandora. But nearly EVERY Android user couldn't figure out how to create more than one station on the device and told me they had to use their computer to do it. Now, maybe it isn't so hard to hit the menu button. But it effectively made major features hidden and put in a none-obvious way (by non-obvious I mean a good number of people weren't able to find it easily). That's the kind of UI issue I think Android has that iOS doesn't. iOS has some hidden things but those are _usually_ power user things and aren't required to make the app function normally.

tomcreighton 15y ago

Let me add this (possibly unpopular on HN?) opinion: I have never, ever seen an open-source project that begins to compare, purely in user experience, to a closed-source/commercial project. Not saying it can't happen, but the forces that push commercial dev and open source dev don't seem to be the same at all.

Pewpewarrows 15y ago
(Firefox & Chrome) vs IE /thread
AshFurrow 15y ago
What's really interesting is this applies to closed source solutions with a terrible user experience. PhotoShop is awful, but still better than the Gimp.
tomjen3 15y ago
Compare Emacs versus any other paid text editor (not ide). Personally I would say that Emacs has a much better UX. Remember UX doesn't just mean pretty corners and can be used by your grandmother (or Homers dad, if you grandmother is in fact awesome at computers) especially in the context of tools used daily. But I will grant you that is is often to always the case when the intended end user is someone who isn't a programmer.
- cube13 15y ago
  >Compare Emacs versus any other paid text editor (not ide). Personally I would say that Emacs has a much better UX. If you want an OS over your OS. For those that don't, use Vi. </text editor wars>
  - AshFurrow 15y ago
    The Future of Emacs/Vi doesn't matter. The Present Does.
MatthewPhillips 15y ago

martythemaniak 15y ago

yawn The same arguments haven been repeated for years. But let's talk briefly about "The Present". Considering the bulk of major new iOS features that Android had long before, (multitasking, drop-down notifications, cloud sync etc), the Android "Present" is always a few steps ahead and some of us like it that way. This isn't something iOS fans seemingly have a very hard time understanding. I can't wait until iOS gets voice actions/input and navigation. We won't hear the end of how incredibly new and innovative iOS is.

gks 15y ago
the voice actions/input you mention will likely go well beyond what Android currently offers. This is one of the things that most Android users seem to neglect understanding. Sure, iOS didn't get Copy and Paste first, nor did it get Multi-tasking first. But, what it did do (arguably) is take those two things and make them a lot more useful than the equivalent on Android. By arguably I am mostly discussing Multi-tasking, as the differences in opinion here vary person to person. Some people like the fact that Android can multi-task to the end of the earth, but dislike the fact battery issues become a real problem. Meanwhile other users are content giving up some of their multi-tasking freedom for better battery life. The same is going to be true of voice input on iOS. From the sounds of it, it will go well above and beyond what Android offers. The simple fact that the rumors (again, these could be wrong as we all know, so I'm speculating) indicate the iPhone 4S/5 are required for processing and ram reasons seem to tell us that the voice input part COULD be done entirely within iOS, not requiring the internet unless looking up internet enabled services (table reservation, weather, etc). The same is true of the "drop-down notifications" you mention. Sure, Android had it first. I don't think anyone has said otherwise. But the way they implemented it is a lot better. One, the notifications (if you want) pop up on the main lock screen. Swipe the app icon from left to right and it takes you to that notification. No need to unlock, swipe the menu at the top, click the notification. The ability to remove a single apps notifications from the tray as opposed to clearing all is another nice addition. The ability to determine which applications show up in the notification tray. If you choose, some apps can be pop-up dialog boxes like they are in iOS4, some can be just numbers near the app icon, while some can be in the notification tray. I don't see that in Android. Again, maybe some "skin" on top of Android can do these things, but that is half the problem not all Android devices will have these features. Sure, most of the people that argue Android is so awesome have no problem rooting and fiddling with their devices, but that will prevent mass market adoption if one of these features becomes a big deal right? Generally iOS provides a much better experience for users. There are some ways that Android is better, some ways that iOS is better. I don't think there's really anything wrong with that. But Android users seem to be so damn hell-bent on being better, "oh but Android is activating more devices" blah blah blah. Why can't everyone just shut the hell up and use what works for them instead of being dicks about it? Civil discussions are great, I think the original article for this story was a pretty civil discussion. Meanwhile, the hacker news discussion gets all pissy with people mindlessly arguing that their preferred OS is better. This I think is something you have a hard time understanding, sir.

MatthewPhillips 15y ago

> I brought up the topic of Android vs. iOS Why?

AshFurrow 15y ago
Because I only ever get to discuss the topic in flamewars online and speaking to an actual person was very refreshing.