3 ms·

That's one way to do it, but then you just perpetuate the biases inherent in the system. For example if the standards include "child of an alumni", that's not

That's one way to do it, but then you just perpetuate the biases inherent in the system. For example if the standards include "child of an alumni", that's not very fair. If the standards include GPA, that's not very fair to someone who went to a school that doesn't offer AP tests. And what they look like is important because certain people experience life very differently depending on what they look like.

abledon 5y ago
A colleague i know also argues that people tend to hire/promote people who look like them (subconscious bias that they prefer their own 'kind' / stemming back to tribal era etc)
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  This is pure, 100% anecdote, but, I remember at my first tech job, there were basically 3 teams working on different aspects of the product. I, a white male, was on a team with 3 other white males. There was another team of around 5 or 6 who were all Chinese. The last team was probably 10-15, all Indian. All these people were damn good at their jobs, but it was rather interesting how the demographics fell.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Part of this might be nepotism and networking. Maybe we should ban those from recruitment. Can't recommend anyone anymore. Just purely blind system, maybe text or voice changer, so visuals involved...
    - actually_a_dog 5y ago
      Orchestras have blind auditions for precisely that reason, and it apparently works. It's not a perfect system, mostly because the classical music world itself has certain barriers built into it that are tough to navigate, but it certainly does have the intended effect.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
refurb 5y ago
"If the standards include GPA, that's not very fair to someone who went to a school that doesn't offer AP tests." Sure but the schools who choose to not rely on academic merit any more are just bringing everyone else down instead of raising up the few who need it. Seems like a terrible solution. San Francisco just turned Lowell High, one of the best high schools in the country, from merit based to lottery. This is despite the school being full of minority students who excel academically. Now they're screwed and their spot will go to some kid who was advanced a grade because their old school didn't want to hold them back. Well done?
- xanaxagoras 5y ago
  That school is over. It will be propped up for a while on its laurels but the prestige will quickly wither and not return. Kind of like a capital group buying a once great brand and destroying everything that made it great while cutting costs. The radical, race-obsessed, racist arm of the modern American left destroys everything it touches.
erklik 5y ago
> For example if the standards include "child of an alumni", that's not very fair. If the standards include GPA, that's not very fair to someone who went to a school that doesn't offer AP tests. Some of this is pretty on-point. 'child of alumni' is somewhat dumb standard. I guess part of it is looking at standards and ensuring they're based in rational, and logical ideas. However, if the issue with the standard being good GPA is that it's not fair to someone who went to bad school. The issue isn't the standard, it's the school. A better attempt to increased enrollment is to focus on ensuring better schools are provided to those students. > And what they look like is important because certain people experience life very differently depending on what they look like. That's correct. However, it's not clear to me how lowering standards is good? It's simply lowering the quality of students overall. Again, the solution falls to actually improving the level of quality of education for the under-represented groups instead of lowering standards. In general, this discrimination is the definition of racism. Replace Blacks with White, and replace Asians with Blacks and you can be pretty clear how similar it is to racism of the past. Quoting a paragraph from the article with slight changes: > Among other things, standardized testing requirements were eliminated, and subjective admission criteria were added in an effort to deny slots to African-Americans and boost enrollment among white Americans. If I saw that in a newspaper, I would conclude that's some racist stuff right there. If I remember correctly, most of the world, including America, in general decided a while ago that this Racism thing is not good.
gruez 5y ago
> If the standards include GPA, that's not very fair to someone who went to a school that doesn't offer AP tests. so make AP classes run/subsidized by the state, rather than trying to assign quotas to college admissions.
guynamedloren 5y ago
No idea why this is getting downvoted. Perpetuating biases is a very real issue.
- jedberg 5y ago
  > No idea why this is getting downvoted. People don't like to admit that minorities get treated differently just because of how they look.

abledon 5y ago

A colleague i know also argues that people tend to hire/promote people who look like them (subconscious bias that they prefer their own 'kind' / stemming back to tribal era etc)

actually_a_dog 5y ago
This is pure, 100% anecdote, but, I remember at my first tech job, there were basically 3 teams working on different aspects of the product. I, a white male, was on a team with 3 other white males. There was another team of around 5 or 6 who were all Chinese. The last team was probably 10-15, all Indian. All these people were damn good at their jobs, but it was rather interesting how the demographics fell.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Part of this might be nepotism and networking. Maybe we should ban those from recruitment. Can't recommend anyone anymore. Just purely blind system, maybe text or voice changer, so visuals involved...
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    Orchestras have blind auditions for precisely that reason, and it apparently works. It's not a perfect system, mostly because the classical music world itself has certain barriers built into it that are tough to navigate, but it certainly does have the intended effect.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

refurb 5y ago

"If the standards include GPA, that's not very fair to someone who went to a school that doesn't offer AP tests." Sure but the schools who choose to not rely on academic merit any more are just bringing everyone else down instead of raising up the few who need it. Seems like a terrible solution. San Francisco just turned Lowell High, one of the best high schools in the country, from merit based to lottery. This is despite the school being full of minority students who excel academically. Now they're screwed and their spot will go to some kid who was advanced a grade because their old school didn't want to hold them back. Well done?

xanaxagoras 5y ago
That school is over. It will be propped up for a while on its laurels but the prestige will quickly wither and not return. Kind of like a capital group buying a once great brand and destroying everything that made it great while cutting costs. The radical, race-obsessed, racist arm of the modern American left destroys everything it touches.

erklik 5y ago

> For example if the standards include "child of an alumni", that's not very fair. If the standards include GPA, that's not very fair to someone who went to a school that doesn't offer AP tests. Some of this is pretty on-point. 'child of alumni' is somewhat dumb standard. I guess part of it is looking at standards and ensuring they're based in rational, and logical ideas. However, if the issue with the standard being good GPA is that it's not fair to someone who went to bad school. The issue isn't the standard, it's the school. A better attempt to increased enrollment is to focus on ensuring better schools are provided to those students. > And what they look like is important because certain people experience life very differently depending on what they look like. That's correct. However, it's not clear to me how lowering standards is good? It's simply lowering the quality of students overall. Again, the solution falls to actually improving the level of quality of education for the under-represented groups instead of lowering standards. In general, this discrimination is the definition of racism. Replace Blacks with White, and replace Asians with Blacks and you can be pretty clear how similar it is to racism of the past. Quoting a paragraph from the article with slight changes: > Among other things, standardized testing requirements were eliminated, and subjective admission criteria were added in an effort to deny slots to African-Americans and boost enrollment among white Americans. If I saw that in a newspaper, I would conclude that's some racist stuff right there. If I remember correctly, most of the world, including America, in general decided a while ago that this Racism thing is not good.

gruez 5y ago

> If the standards include GPA, that's not very fair to someone who went to a school that doesn't offer AP tests. so make AP classes run/subsidized by the state, rather than trying to assign quotas to college admissions.

guynamedloren 5y ago

No idea why this is getting downvoted. Perpetuating biases is a very real issue.

jedberg 5y ago
> No idea why this is getting downvoted. People don't like to admit that minorities get treated differently just because of how they look.