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I think we're right on the precipice of this changing. PDF has long been the preferred format for dead-tree-like documents. It isn't quite as open, cleanly desi

I think we're right on the precipice of this changing. PDF has long been the preferred format for dead-tree-like documents. It isn't quite as open, cleanly designed or navigable as we'd like but it has the inertial force to continue staying in use for decades. Lately I've been working with Inkscape and realized that SVG also has the capacity to be a freeform document tool, and one with a different default context than HTML(scrolling document) or PDF(paginated document). The default setup involves a canvas, it has a notion of object hierarchies that lets you browse content from an outline, it lets you embed assets and layout in a more-or-less arbitrary fashion, it can be coded with JS, and there's some (under-explored) possibility for structured accessibility. It just needs a viewer that approaches the format in a way that makes sense as a target for content creation, beyond its existing role of small vector icons and simple animations. None of the existing formats have to work exactly right, they just have to be the starting point for a streamlined source; then make a direct viewer for the source and you have the integrated multimedia format.

wolverine876 5y ago
Is SVG too complex to be portable across systems and preserved across time? It does remind me that EPUB, the ebook format, has potential: It's essentially, as I understand, HTML, CSS, and some metadata files, structured according to the specification, all in a zip file. It's already a standard, though AFAICT not quite stable. https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/ https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/
- vertis 5y ago
  If you've tried opening up lots of epub files (I have), you'll soon learn that there are a huge range of layouts and ugliness under the hood. Yes it's HTML, and therefore you can preserve a good portion of the knowledge even if you didn't have an ereader (though you need zip), but it would still be a pain to extract and reformat at scale. Disclaimer: I probably spend too much time thinking about this from a 'long now' perspective.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > Disclaimer: I probably spend too much time thinking about this from a 'long now' perspective. That's great! What have you come up with? AFAICT, PDF - or PDF/A - is currently the only good format for long-term text document (e.g., books) preservation. It's the only format that's stable over the long-term (at least PDF/A is), it's the only universally supported format, and it's the only option with stable annotations (which is essential to me). The major downside is that the actual text is hard to extract and integrate with other functions. That's why I have hopes for epub.

wolverine876 5y ago

Is SVG too complex to be portable across systems and preserved across time? It does remind me that EPUB, the ebook format, has potential: It's essentially, as I understand, HTML, CSS, and some metadata files, structured according to the specification, all in a zip file. It's already a standard, though AFAICT not quite stable. https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/ https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/

vertis 5y ago
If you've tried opening up lots of epub files (I have), you'll soon learn that there are a huge range of layouts and ugliness under the hood. Yes it's HTML, and therefore you can preserve a good portion of the knowledge even if you didn't have an ereader (though you need zip), but it would still be a pain to extract and reformat at scale. Disclaimer: I probably spend too much time thinking about this from a 'long now' perspective.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > Disclaimer: I probably spend too much time thinking about this from a 'long now' perspective. That's great! What have you come up with? AFAICT, PDF - or PDF/A - is currently the only good format for long-term text document (e.g., books) preservation. It's the only format that's stable over the long-term (at least PDF/A is), it's the only universally supported format, and it's the only option with stable annotations (which is essential to me). The major downside is that the actual text is hard to extract and integrate with other functions. That's why I have hopes for epub.