5 ms·

A lot of stuff mentioned in the article is true. I would even go ahead (at peril being downvoted by Indian patriots) that India is a deeply racist country. My p

by Bhilai 5y ago

A lot of stuff mentioned in the article is true. I would even go ahead (at peril being downvoted by Indian patriots) that India is a deeply racist country. My parents, educated upper middle class working folks use to 'educate' me to not get married outside our caste and such. Caste system is deeply rooted in India and you can pretty much read about it from lots of sources online. India has a lot of right provisions (like the reservation system for SC/ST/OBC akin to affirmative action type of stuff in US if I am not mistaken) but in a typical fashion those provisions are either not applied properly or are abused by people in such categories. India is also a deeply poor country with a history of systemic racism so its not surprising some of the beliefs have landed in silicon valley too. > Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I think its a fair question. Its not as much about where a person is from but "what caste they belong to" type of stuff that might be offensive.

lisper 5y ago
It would never even occur to me to ask someone what caste they were from, not just in Silicon Valley where I happen to live, but anywhere in the U.S. Seriously, who does that?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- samizdette 5y ago
  I grew up around a lot of Indian people, and I have definitely had the curiosity to know how to ask, but at the same time known that it would be taboo. I can only guess from their wealth or their last names.
- AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
  It actually does occur to me, mostly because I'm curious if all of my coworkers are of Brahmin caste. It doesn't matter to me personally, but obviously it would be of interest if all of the people in the Managerial or Lead roles are from a certain caste, while all of the lower-level Devs are in another.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    Couldn't that be a follow-on effect from a lifetime of advantages in education and opportunity costs? It's not necessary to imagine a special Brahmin-loving company administration.
    - AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
      Oh, definitely. It could be neither intentional nor malicious. But it would still be interesting to know.
    - User23 5y ago
      It’s also a general pattern that follows from human assortative mating. Then add to that inheritance laws and over the centuries the upper classes can acquire serious cumulative advantages. Of course it occasionally backfires, such as in the case of Habsburg inbreeding.
  - User23 5y ago
    I worked at a big tech company where you could, with rare exceptions, reliably estimate a South Asian employee’s place in the org chart from skin tone. I don’t know how well that correlates to caste, but I imagine it does to at least some degree.
- belval 5y ago
  Someone who doesn't understand that it's taboo and is curious of a system that existed for 3000 years? I understand that it's a painful heritage for some but to an outsider this seems akin to genealogy for example.
wincy 5y ago
Okay so curious, I have a South Indian neighbor who is Muslim. I assume Muslims are just a different thing outside of the caste system, despite people saying caste is not rooted in Hinduism? (I’m not saying it is, just curious how an Indian might view their Muslim neighbors).
- belval 5y ago
  Seems to exist for Indian muslims as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian...
  - tsol 5y ago
    Anecdotally I believe it occurs in a much lower amount, I haven't seen it at all as an Indian Muslim. Still I don't deny that it happens, especially in areas with less education. By creed it doesn't make sense-- as a popular hadith says "no Arab is better than a non Arab and no white is better than a black, except by piety and good deeds". Of course this hasn't stopped the ignorant in the past(unfortunately)
    - kamaal 5y ago
      Among muslims themselves its practically non-existent. Speaking as a Muslim, the way the Indian society perceives us, we are the lowest of the lowest castes. Muslims themselves perceive our layer as fairly flat. This is mostly because most muslims themselves have been caste refugees to a new religion(Islam) in the past. And for the better wouldn't want to go back to that history.
      - thowaway_2mar 5y ago
        Not true, you maybe an "upper-caste muslim". 1 ) https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-churn-85-backward-pasmandas-up-against-15-ashrafs/234599/ https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-... 2) https://www.opindia.com/2020/10/muslim-social-hierarchy-caste-system-ajlaf-ashraf/ https://www.opindia.com/2020/10/muslim-social-hierarchy-cast... 3) https://theprint.in/opinion/pasmanda-muslims-missing-from-positions-of-power-waqf-board-to-jamaat-e-islami/746464/ https://theprint.in/opinion/pasmanda-muslims-missing-from-po... 4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lENVbLrJOQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lENVbLrJOQw 5) https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/we-need-a-caste-census-of-muslim-community-too-says-pasmanda-community-leader-khalid-anis-ansari/article36227039.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/we-need-a-caste-censu... 6) https://www.deccanherald.com/opinion/dilip-kumar-the-gardener-of-the-pasmanda-movement-1005877.html https://www.deccanherald.com/opinion/dilip-kumar-the-gardene... 7) https://thewire.in/caste/lower-caste-muslims-in-up-forge-new-solidarities-ahead-of-assembly-elections https://thewire.in/caste/lower-caste-muslims-in-up-forge-new... Emancipation of the Dalit Muslims hasn't yet occurred, Hindu-Muslim binary contributes to this oppression of Pasmanda and Dalit/ lower caste Muslims. The oppressor can never understand the pain of the oppressed. How many lower caste Muslims ruled India? Why 90% of the Muslims politicians are upper caste ashrafs/syeeds? Ashraf hegemony must end.
rdedev 5y ago
There was a new story of a matrimonial ad that was asking for a groom for a gay man. It had a preferred caste for suitors. So yeah, it runs pretty deep in some corners of India https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/mumbai/matrimonial-ad-seeking-groom-for-gay-son/article7228662.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/mumbai/matrimonial-ad-s...

by Bhilai 5y ago

lisper 5y ago

It would never even occur to me to ask someone what caste they were from, not just in Silicon Valley where I happen to live, but anywhere in the U.S. Seriously, who does that?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
samizdette 5y ago
I grew up around a lot of Indian people, and I have definitely had the curiosity to know how to ask, but at the same time known that it would be taboo. I can only guess from their wealth or their last names.
AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
It actually does occur to me, mostly because I'm curious if all of my coworkers are of Brahmin caste. It doesn't matter to me personally, but obviously it would be of interest if all of the people in the Managerial or Lead roles are from a certain caste, while all of the lower-level Devs are in another.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  Couldn't that be a follow-on effect from a lifetime of advantages in education and opportunity costs? It's not necessary to imagine a special Brahmin-loving company administration.
  - AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
    Oh, definitely. It could be neither intentional nor malicious. But it would still be interesting to know.
  - User23 5y ago
    It’s also a general pattern that follows from human assortative mating. Then add to that inheritance laws and over the centuries the upper classes can acquire serious cumulative advantages. Of course it occasionally backfires, such as in the case of Habsburg inbreeding.
- User23 5y ago
  I worked at a big tech company where you could, with rare exceptions, reliably estimate a South Asian employee’s place in the org chart from skin tone. I don’t know how well that correlates to caste, but I imagine it does to at least some degree.
belval 5y ago
Someone who doesn't understand that it's taboo and is curious of a system that existed for 3000 years? I understand that it's a painful heritage for some but to an outsider this seems akin to genealogy for example.

wincy 5y ago

Okay so curious, I have a South Indian neighbor who is Muslim. I assume Muslims are just a different thing outside of the caste system, despite people saying caste is not rooted in Hinduism? (I’m not saying it is, just curious how an Indian might view their Muslim neighbors).

belval 5y ago
Seems to exist for Indian muslims as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian...
- tsol 5y ago
  Anecdotally I believe it occurs in a much lower amount, I haven't seen it at all as an Indian Muslim. Still I don't deny that it happens, especially in areas with less education. By creed it doesn't make sense-- as a popular hadith says "no Arab is better than a non Arab and no white is better than a black, except by piety and good deeds". Of course this hasn't stopped the ignorant in the past(unfortunately)
  - kamaal 5y ago
    Among muslims themselves its practically non-existent. Speaking as a Muslim, the way the Indian society perceives us, we are the lowest of the lowest castes. Muslims themselves perceive our layer as fairly flat. This is mostly because most muslims themselves have been caste refugees to a new religion(Islam) in the past. And for the better wouldn't want to go back to that history.
    - thowaway_2mar 5y ago
      Not true, you maybe an "upper-caste muslim". 1 ) https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-churn-85-backward-pasmandas-up-against-15-ashrafs/234599/ https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-... 2) https://www.opindia.com/2020/10/muslim-social-hierarchy-caste-system-ajlaf-ashraf/ https://www.opindia.com/2020/10/muslim-social-hierarchy-cast... 3) https://theprint.in/opinion/pasmanda-muslims-missing-from-positions-of-power-waqf-board-to-jamaat-e-islami/746464/ https://theprint.in/opinion/pasmanda-muslims-missing-from-po... 4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lENVbLrJOQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lENVbLrJOQw 5) https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/we-need-a-caste-census-of-muslim-community-too-says-pasmanda-community-leader-khalid-anis-ansari/article36227039.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/we-need-a-caste-censu... 6) https://www.deccanherald.com/opinion/dilip-kumar-the-gardener-of-the-pasmanda-movement-1005877.html https://www.deccanherald.com/opinion/dilip-kumar-the-gardene... 7) https://thewire.in/caste/lower-caste-muslims-in-up-forge-new-solidarities-ahead-of-assembly-elections https://thewire.in/caste/lower-caste-muslims-in-up-forge-new... Emancipation of the Dalit Muslims hasn't yet occurred, Hindu-Muslim binary contributes to this oppression of Pasmanda and Dalit/ lower caste Muslims. The oppressor can never understand the pain of the oppressed. How many lower caste Muslims ruled India? Why 90% of the Muslims politicians are upper caste ashrafs/syeeds? Ashraf hegemony must end.

rdedev 5y ago

There was a new story of a matrimonial ad that was asking for a groom for a gay man. It had a preferred caste for suitors. So yeah, it runs pretty deep in some corners of India https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/mumbai/matrimonial-ad-seeking-groom-for-gay-son/article7228662.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/mumbai/matrimonial-ad-s...