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> The Russian demand of a neutral Ukraine outside of NATO is not unreasonable Talk of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU was significantly influenced by Russia's i

by olliej 5y ago

> The Russian demand of a neutral Ukraine outside of NATO is not unreasonable Talk of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU was significantly influenced by Russia's invasion of Crimea. Russia was not demanding neutrality, it is demanding Ukraine be a vassal state under the threat of .. making it a vassal by force. > Russia has no interest or capability of taking Ukraine or the EU. Say no to war They literally invaded Ukraine, and are deliberately using illegal munitions on civilian targets.

foverzar 5y ago
> Talk of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU was significantly influenced by Russia's invasion of Crimea It was long before that. Ukraine was practically pushed towards joining NATO during Bush Administration using any "soft" means possible. Euromaidan (which the US had actively engaged in) also happened before Crimea, not after. > deliberately using illegal munitions on civilian targets Any solid source to that? Doesn't seem like there is any possible reason for that, other than completely demonizing someone's image.
- tguvot 5y ago
  >Any solid source to that? Doesn't seem like there is any possible reason for that, other than completely demonizing someone's image. Those https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t27gu7/butterfly_landmines_do_not_touch_these/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t27gu7/butterfly_l... lovely things were found at second day around bombed school or kindergarten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1 . It's usually been delivered by uragan system Also there are video recording of cluster munition exploding in residential areas in kharkiv and empty uragan sized rockets with cassets for munition stuck in ground near by.
  - foverzar 5y ago
    Sorry, but r/ukraine has hardly been a solid source for the last few years. I've already seen a few older videos of Ukraine Armed Forces attacks on Donetsk being presented as "new videos of Russian armed forces bombing civilians", just as Arma 3 gameplay videos: https://www.pcgamer.com/arma-3-clips-masquerading-as-footage-of-the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-amassed-more-than-110000-views-before-being-removed/ https://www.pcgamer.com/arma-3-clips-masquerading-as-footage... Reports of soviet munitions, coming from the country that has been one of the centers of soviet military-industrial complex, raise some skepticism.

by olliej 5y ago

foverzar 5y ago

> Talk of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU was significantly influenced by Russia's invasion of Crimea It was long before that. Ukraine was practically pushed towards joining NATO during Bush Administration using any "soft" means possible. Euromaidan (which the US had actively engaged in) also happened before Crimea, not after. > deliberately using illegal munitions on civilian targets Any solid source to that? Doesn't seem like there is any possible reason for that, other than completely demonizing someone's image.

tguvot 5y ago
>Any solid source to that? Doesn't seem like there is any possible reason for that, other than completely demonizing someone's image. Those https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t27gu7/butterfly_landmines_do_not_touch_these/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t27gu7/butterfly_l... lovely things were found at second day around bombed school or kindergarten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1 . It's usually been delivered by uragan system Also there are video recording of cluster munition exploding in residential areas in kharkiv and empty uragan sized rockets with cassets for munition stuck in ground near by.
- foverzar 5y ago
  Sorry, but r/ukraine has hardly been a solid source for the last few years. I've already seen a few older videos of Ukraine Armed Forces attacks on Donetsk being presented as "new videos of Russian armed forces bombing civilians", just as Arma 3 gameplay videos: https://www.pcgamer.com/arma-3-clips-masquerading-as-footage-of-the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-amassed-more-than-110000-views-before-being-removed/ https://www.pcgamer.com/arma-3-clips-masquerading-as-footage... Reports of soviet munitions, coming from the country that has been one of the centers of soviet military-industrial complex, raise some skepticism.