4 ms·

Everybody told Germany that it's not a good idea to build this pipeline. Well, it was an expensive way of learning it.

cft 5y ago
Putin financed German green party, that also shut down nuclear reactors. He is not stupid. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/german-green-group-branded-a-russian-puppet-over-nord-stream-ii-gas-pipeline-nzd9p056q https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/german-green-group-brande...
- Daniel_sk 5y ago
  And they also lobbied to get gas into EU taxonomy as renewable (and succeeded!).
- tut-urut-utut 5y ago
  WTF. German Green Party is more pro USA and pro NATO than Biden. They are literally more interested in USA than German interests.
- jjtheblunt 5y ago
  > He is not stupid. He's seemingly angered / disgusted the entire earth: that's stupid.
  - cft 5y ago
    China seems to be content for now
    - rchaud 5y ago
      Why wouldn't they? China and Russia are not natural allies and they both have an interest in maintaining influence over energy-rich Central Asia. Russia invading Ukraine gives China license to further deepen its relations with its neighbours, without worrying too much about Russian blowback. It's the same situation as when the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. China got a get out of jail free card in terms of ramping up military and establishing territorial claims in the South China Sea. No kerfuffle with the US, who were simply too deep into a quagmire to care.
- kken 5y ago
  This is not about the green party, but a separate foundatation, which creating a lot of embarrassment now, though: (Sorry, is in german) https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/umstrittener-einsatz-fuer-nord-stream-2-schwesig-war-eine-russische-werbeikone/28119474.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/umstrittener-einsatz-fue...
- morsch 5y ago
  The article doesn't talk about the Green party, but rather of a (supposedly) environmental group related to the SPD, the centrist party of Scholz and Schröder. Though Merkel had ample time to stop North Stream 2, and didn't. The Green party was founded in the 80s, and being anti nuclear is part of its founding axioms. It's also a majority position in Germany. The Greens were also opposed to NS2 from the start.
  - nl 5y ago
    This is correct. First, some background. The Green party in Germany has traditionally been anti-Russia: Germany’s new political alignments paved the way for this revolution. Scholz’s Social Democratic Party (SPD) governs with the values-driven Greens and the liberal Free Democrats, both of which advocate a tougher line toward Moscow. The Centralist SPD has in the past been pro-Russia, in particular under Gerhard Schröder: Faced with indefensible Russian actions, the “dialogue” wing of the SPD has seen its arguments crumble. The most visible advocate for pro-Russian positions, ex-Chancellor Gerhard Schröder of the SPD, has come under fire from the entire party leadership for his positions on the boards of Russian energy corporations such as Nord Stream AG, Rosneft, and just recently Gazprom (although that is still pending). Schröder has in a matter of weeks gone from being one of Russia’s most valuable assets in Germany to a political liability. From https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/27/putin-war-ukraine-germany-scholz-revolution/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/27/putin-war-ukraine-germa... which has a lot of useful background. It's green groups within the SPD that were funded by Russia, not the Green Party. From the originally linked article: It is the creation of Manuela Schwesig, the state’s Social Democratic premier, who is an ally of Gerhard Schröder, Germany’s former chancellor and chairman of Nord Stream II. Schröder has been attacked by political opponents for his close relationship with Vladimir Putin, the Russian president
- ivan_gammel 5y ago
  This is false information. 1. When first decisions were made for exit from nuclear, Greens were indeed the partner in the coalition government, but back then Putin was just elected as a president of Russia and could not possibly influence that decision in any way. 2. It was Angela Merkel (CDU) in coalition with FDP, who signed off the current plan to shut down all nuclear plants by 2022. By the moment this comment is written, not all of them are completely shut down yet, and Robert Habeck, the minister of economic development from Greens, is not excluding the possibility of expanding their life time. 3. Putin has never financed Greens or any other major party in Germany, as this is directly forbidden by German law.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > This is false information. > 1. When first decisions were made for exit from nuclear, Greens were indeed the partner in the coalition government, but back then Putin was just elected as a president of Russia and could not possibly influence that decision in any way. Wait, wasn't that decision taken in 2012, after Fukushima -- is that what you are talking about?!? Because in that case, talk about "false information"! I mean, sure, it's technically correct -- the best kind of false information -- but misleading AF: Back then Putlin was just elected as President of Russia after a four-year stint as Prime Minister to circumvent (then-)constitutional term limits, following his previous two terms as President. You know, those weird years 2008-2012 when suddenly the Prime Minister of Russia turned out to be a much more important and powerful position than President? (Weird how that suddenly ended after Putler's re-ascension to the Presidency in 2012.)
- ushakov 5y ago
  ex-chancellor of Germany as well as many high-ranking German (ex-)politicians are getting sweet spots in Russian oil/gas businesses https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/ex-kanzler-gerhard-schroeder-soll-in-aufsichtsrat-von-gazprom-17780096.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/ex-kanzler-gerha...
- vinni2 5y ago
  This article doesn’t say anything about The German Green Party or the shutdown of the nuclear power plants.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mytailorisrich 5y ago
Not "everybody", those who has an interest in doing so, number one being the USA (including commercial interests). Gas is still a hot commodity in the world and Russia will sell it, anyway, and maybe still to Germany as they've announced they were restoring normal gas flow through Poland to Germany. Now, the good general point that one would have hoped all countries understood by now is: Don't become too dependent on a single supplier for anything, especially energy.
- baq 5y ago
  Poland in particular knew exactly what would happen. And it did. They were disregarded as Russophobes with legacy baggage. Turns out they had valid reasons all along, the west just thought that they can trade around those issues, but they failed to understand that Putin does not think like a trader. He thinks like a dictator.
  - borg_ 5y ago
    to clarify, "thinking like a trader" means Putin ought to tolerate continued NATO expansion, with American missiles placed on Russia's front porch, just because the west is a buyer of Russian gas? The western politicians and the public acting surprised after ignoring all the warning signs all these years is truly amazing to watch.
    - baq 5y ago
      Russia is literally surrounded by NATO in Kaliningrad and I’ve only seen it mentioned once somewhere on Twitter, and not by Russians. This is Russian propaganda to make westerners feel guilty and blame their politicians.
      - pessimizer 5y ago
        Somehow this Russian propaganda has been parroted by every Western expert to the left of Hitler for the last couple of decades. Putin is clearly playing the long game.
      - 5y ago

cft 5y ago

Putin financed German green party, that also shut down nuclear reactors. He is not stupid. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/german-green-group-branded-a-russian-puppet-over-nord-stream-ii-gas-pipeline-nzd9p056q https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/german-green-group-brande...

Daniel_sk 5y ago
And they also lobbied to get gas into EU taxonomy as renewable (and succeeded!).
tut-urut-utut 5y ago
WTF. German Green Party is more pro USA and pro NATO than Biden. They are literally more interested in USA than German interests.
jjtheblunt 5y ago
> He is not stupid. He's seemingly angered / disgusted the entire earth: that's stupid.
- cft 5y ago
  China seems to be content for now
  - rchaud 5y ago
    Why wouldn't they? China and Russia are not natural allies and they both have an interest in maintaining influence over energy-rich Central Asia. Russia invading Ukraine gives China license to further deepen its relations with its neighbours, without worrying too much about Russian blowback. It's the same situation as when the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. China got a get out of jail free card in terms of ramping up military and establishing territorial claims in the South China Sea. No kerfuffle with the US, who were simply too deep into a quagmire to care.
kken 5y ago
This is not about the green party, but a separate foundatation, which creating a lot of embarrassment now, though: (Sorry, is in german) https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/umstrittener-einsatz-fuer-nord-stream-2-schwesig-war-eine-russische-werbeikone/28119474.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/umstrittener-einsatz-fue...
morsch 5y ago
The article doesn't talk about the Green party, but rather of a (supposedly) environmental group related to the SPD, the centrist party of Scholz and Schröder. Though Merkel had ample time to stop North Stream 2, and didn't. The Green party was founded in the 80s, and being anti nuclear is part of its founding axioms. It's also a majority position in Germany. The Greens were also opposed to NS2 from the start.
- nl 5y ago
  This is correct. First, some background. The Green party in Germany has traditionally been anti-Russia: Germany’s new political alignments paved the way for this revolution. Scholz’s Social Democratic Party (SPD) governs with the values-driven Greens and the liberal Free Democrats, both of which advocate a tougher line toward Moscow. The Centralist SPD has in the past been pro-Russia, in particular under Gerhard Schröder: Faced with indefensible Russian actions, the “dialogue” wing of the SPD has seen its arguments crumble. The most visible advocate for pro-Russian positions, ex-Chancellor Gerhard Schröder of the SPD, has come under fire from the entire party leadership for his positions on the boards of Russian energy corporations such as Nord Stream AG, Rosneft, and just recently Gazprom (although that is still pending). Schröder has in a matter of weeks gone from being one of Russia’s most valuable assets in Germany to a political liability. From https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/27/putin-war-ukraine-germany-scholz-revolution/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/27/putin-war-ukraine-germa... which has a lot of useful background. It's green groups within the SPD that were funded by Russia, not the Green Party. From the originally linked article: It is the creation of Manuela Schwesig, the state’s Social Democratic premier, who is an ally of Gerhard Schröder, Germany’s former chancellor and chairman of Nord Stream II. Schröder has been attacked by political opponents for his close relationship with Vladimir Putin, the Russian president
ivan_gammel 5y ago
This is false information. 1. When first decisions were made for exit from nuclear, Greens were indeed the partner in the coalition government, but back then Putin was just elected as a president of Russia and could not possibly influence that decision in any way. 2. It was Angela Merkel (CDU) in coalition with FDP, who signed off the current plan to shut down all nuclear plants by 2022. By the moment this comment is written, not all of them are completely shut down yet, and Robert Habeck, the minister of economic development from Greens, is not excluding the possibility of expanding their life time. 3. Putin has never financed Greens or any other major party in Germany, as this is directly forbidden by German law.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > This is false information. > 1. When first decisions were made for exit from nuclear, Greens were indeed the partner in the coalition government, but back then Putin was just elected as a president of Russia and could not possibly influence that decision in any way. Wait, wasn't that decision taken in 2012, after Fukushima -- is that what you are talking about?!? Because in that case, talk about "false information"! I mean, sure, it's technically correct -- the best kind of false information -- but misleading AF: Back then Putlin was just elected as President of Russia after a four-year stint as Prime Minister to circumvent (then-)constitutional term limits, following his previous two terms as President. You know, those weird years 2008-2012 when suddenly the Prime Minister of Russia turned out to be a much more important and powerful position than President? (Weird how that suddenly ended after Putler's re-ascension to the Presidency in 2012.)
ushakov 5y ago
ex-chancellor of Germany as well as many high-ranking German (ex-)politicians are getting sweet spots in Russian oil/gas businesses https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/ex-kanzler-gerhard-schroeder-soll-in-aufsichtsrat-von-gazprom-17780096.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/ex-kanzler-gerha...
vinni2 5y ago
This article doesn’t say anything about The German Green Party or the shutdown of the nuclear power plants.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mytailorisrich 5y ago

Not "everybody", those who has an interest in doing so, number one being the USA (including commercial interests). Gas is still a hot commodity in the world and Russia will sell it, anyway, and maybe still to Germany as they've announced they were restoring normal gas flow through Poland to Germany. Now, the good general point that one would have hoped all countries understood by now is: Don't become too dependent on a single supplier for anything, especially energy.

baq 5y ago
Poland in particular knew exactly what would happen. And it did. They were disregarded as Russophobes with legacy baggage. Turns out they had valid reasons all along, the west just thought that they can trade around those issues, but they failed to understand that Putin does not think like a trader. He thinks like a dictator.
- borg_ 5y ago
  to clarify, "thinking like a trader" means Putin ought to tolerate continued NATO expansion, with American missiles placed on Russia's front porch, just because the west is a buyer of Russian gas? The western politicians and the public acting surprised after ignoring all the warning signs all these years is truly amazing to watch.
  - baq 5y ago
    Russia is literally surrounded by NATO in Kaliningrad and I’ve only seen it mentioned once somewhere on Twitter, and not by Russians. This is Russian propaganda to make westerners feel guilty and blame their politicians.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      Somehow this Russian propaganda has been parroted by every Western expert to the left of Hitler for the last couple of decades. Putin is clearly playing the long game.
    - 5y ago