5 ms·

Money is flowing from Europe to Ukraine to support that side of the war. Unfortunately way more money is flowing from Europe to Russia, to support the other sid

by nikanj 5y ago

Money is flowing from Europe to Ukraine to support that side of the war. Unfortunately way more money is flowing from Europe to Russia, to support the other side of said war.

lawn 5y ago
If the war so far has shown anything, it's that Russia hasn't been converting money to military efficiently. And so far there's been a very large inflow of critical military equipment to Ukraine, while Russia has been hit with giant economic sanctions.
dmitriid 5y ago
Whether we like it or not, the world is global (and has been so since at least the 19th century). Politicians and populists can huff and puff all they want, but Europe needs gas, and it gets that gas from Russia.
- indigochill 5y ago
  > Europe needs gas, and it gets that gas from Russia. As an American living in Europe, I've just learned this fact last week, but I'm curious if the US gets its gas from the middle east, why hasn't Europe been doing the same? Ever since the fall of the USSR, it's not like western Europe welcomed Russia back into Europe with open arms (to my understanding, Russia is the entire reason NATO still exists). By comparison, Europe barely seems to register the middle east's existence (aside from when refugees start crossing the border in large numbers or when supporting US invasions). So politically it seems like they'd be a much better economic partner (especially since western Europe and the US are on generally good terms and the US has been heavily involved in making sure their oil interests in the middle east remain "secure"). Is it that Russian gas is actually cheaper but the US wouldn't buy from Russia?
  - nikanj 5y ago
    The US does not get their gas from the middle east. Out of 252,610 total units, 250,890 came from Canada. Everything else is a rounding error. [ https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_impc_s1_m.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_impc_s1_m.htm ]
    - indigochill 5y ago
      TIL, thanks especially for the link!
  - tapas73 5y ago
    idea was that if europe trades with russia, russia can be influenced to act in a civil manner. (at least partially) there is also fact that german ex cancelor (schroeder) is at russian gas and oil companies now (i.e. russia made good friends to make right decisions)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - karaterobot 5y ago
    FWIW, the U.S. is a net exporter of fuel. They import some, and I assume that's because they export even more. In any case they are energy independent as of the last couple years. I assume one big reason to do so was to avoid the security risk of having to protect their oil interests overseas.
- tapas73 5y ago
  If world is global, which it is, gas can be bought from some where else.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    Physics and logistics would have a word ;)
- chasd00 5y ago
  i guess the question is who can lost longer, Europe with their energy crisis or Russia with their war. iirc the transactions involving energy between Germany and Russia have been excluded from the SWIFT sanctions, or it was at least on the table, which is probably what got Germany on board. If the energy crisis deepens i bet more and more exceptions will be made to the sanctions to keep the gas pipelines flowing and flowing cheaply. "But, out of a sense of political self-preservation, they stopped short of barring energy transactions with Russia. The result is that Germany, Italy and other European nations will continue purchasing and paying for natural gas that flows through pipelines from Russia — through Ukrainian territory that is suddenly a war zone." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/us/politics/eu-us-swift-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/us/politics/eu-us-swift-r... edit: in the US, oil hit $106/bbl which is a 7 year high
- biohax2015 5y ago
  This is an incredibly cynical view. The purchase of that gas directly leads to the murder of Ukrainians and the death of democracy.

by nikanj 5y ago

Money is flowing from Europe to Ukraine to support that side of the war. Unfortunately way more money is flowing from Europe to Russia, to support the other side of said war.

lawn 5y ago

If the war so far has shown anything, it's that Russia hasn't been converting money to military efficiently. And so far there's been a very large inflow of critical military equipment to Ukraine, while Russia has been hit with giant economic sanctions.

dmitriid 5y ago

Whether we like it or not, the world is global (and has been so since at least the 19th century). Politicians and populists can huff and puff all they want, but Europe needs gas, and it gets that gas from Russia.

indigochill 5y ago
> Europe needs gas, and it gets that gas from Russia. As an American living in Europe, I've just learned this fact last week, but I'm curious if the US gets its gas from the middle east, why hasn't Europe been doing the same? Ever since the fall of the USSR, it's not like western Europe welcomed Russia back into Europe with open arms (to my understanding, Russia is the entire reason NATO still exists). By comparison, Europe barely seems to register the middle east's existence (aside from when refugees start crossing the border in large numbers or when supporting US invasions). So politically it seems like they'd be a much better economic partner (especially since western Europe and the US are on generally good terms and the US has been heavily involved in making sure their oil interests in the middle east remain "secure"). Is it that Russian gas is actually cheaper but the US wouldn't buy from Russia?
- nikanj 5y ago
  The US does not get their gas from the middle east. Out of 252,610 total units, 250,890 came from Canada. Everything else is a rounding error. [ https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_impc_s1_m.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_impc_s1_m.htm ]
  - indigochill 5y ago
    TIL, thanks especially for the link!
- tapas73 5y ago
  idea was that if europe trades with russia, russia can be influenced to act in a civil manner. (at least partially) there is also fact that german ex cancelor (schroeder) is at russian gas and oil companies now (i.e. russia made good friends to make right decisions)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- karaterobot 5y ago
  FWIW, the U.S. is a net exporter of fuel. They import some, and I assume that's because they export even more. In any case they are energy independent as of the last couple years. I assume one big reason to do so was to avoid the security risk of having to protect their oil interests overseas.
tapas73 5y ago
If world is global, which it is, gas can be bought from some where else.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  Physics and logistics would have a word ;)
chasd00 5y ago
i guess the question is who can lost longer, Europe with their energy crisis or Russia with their war. iirc the transactions involving energy between Germany and Russia have been excluded from the SWIFT sanctions, or it was at least on the table, which is probably what got Germany on board. If the energy crisis deepens i bet more and more exceptions will be made to the sanctions to keep the gas pipelines flowing and flowing cheaply. "But, out of a sense of political self-preservation, they stopped short of barring energy transactions with Russia. The result is that Germany, Italy and other European nations will continue purchasing and paying for natural gas that flows through pipelines from Russia — through Ukrainian territory that is suddenly a war zone." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/us/politics/eu-us-swift-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/us/politics/eu-us-swift-r... edit: in the US, oil hit $106/bbl which is a 7 year high
biohax2015 5y ago
This is an incredibly cynical view. The purchase of that gas directly leads to the murder of Ukrainians and the death of democracy.