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All is fair in love and war” People need to be a little less naive and skip conversations like this. There’s a 40 mile (65km) convoy heading for the capital o

All is fair in love and war” People need to be a little less naive and skip conversations like this. There’s a 40 mile (65km) convoy heading for the capital of Ukraine. A lot of Ukrainians are about to die. Rather than complaining about how Russia is using 21st century technology from the West, perhaps discussing real solutions would be more beneficial?

xxxtentachyon 5y ago
What do you suggest people do? Get on the phone with their congressperson and have them send in a bomber squadron? As far as immediate impact, reporting this in the hopes that it gets taken down seems about as good as anything feasible at the moment.
- melling 5y ago
  i already made my suggestion and it wasn’t “throw up your hands and say there’s nothing more we can do” “…perhaps discussing real solutions would be more beneficial?” Maybe we come up with nothing but tens of thousands of lives could be saved if we think of something. A week from now the world is going to wish it had done more.
  - rimunroe 5y ago
    "Discussing real solutions" sounds about as substantial a suggestion as "throw your hands up and say there's nothing more we can do". People are already talking. It's not suggesting anything more concrete than what's already being done in this conversation.
    - melling 5y ago
      we turned this into a childish discussion on the internet. Tens of thousands of Ukrainians will be dead within a week.
      - mynameisvlad 5y ago
        Who, exactly, do you think the “we” is in this scenario? You’re the one that came in complaining about how nothing is being done and offering a suggestion of… talking, which is what is already happening. When people rightfully pointed this out to you, you suddenly involved “we”. You’re the one that has instigated this meta-discussion, and you just don’t like that people called you out on it.
        melling 5y ago
        Nah, i’ve got a thick skin. I’ve been on the Internet for over three decades. I’ve been doing this since the Usenet days. I’ll let you guys get back to saying how bad the Russians are for using Google maps. Forget I even brought up the brainstorming idea. Quite honestly I should have know people would go with “you first”. But when I go with “me first” people spend the entire time talking about how it’s a bad idea, missing the point completely A lot of people here probably don’t even remember the Cold War. It’s all about to get pretty real. Considering all the people who are going to die, I had to try.
        mynameisvlad 5y ago
        "Trying" is actually brainstorming. Telling people that they're not helping and that they should brainstorm instead is not "trying". At best, it's yelling from the sidelines that nothing is getting done and everyone should feel bad.
        hedora 5y ago
        I mean this conversation could go somewhere. I'm sure someone here can get access to the maps backend and redirect a few missiles if the rumors are true. This crowd is probably 99th percentile in working out the details. (That is to say, probably not competent at it, which is better than "definitely not") Also, you can bet concrete actionable suggestions made here will bubble up to silicon valley execs by the morning.
  - mynameisvlad 5y ago
    So your suggestion is to just…. Talk about something else? Cool, can’t wait to see the thread you start discussing these important things.
  - darkerside 5y ago
    Your answer is to talk about. So, talk about it. Or are you saying someone else should solve this for you?
  - tenuousemphasis 5y ago
    Literally all you're doing is meta-complaining, you're not offering any solutions either. Now you've forced me to meta-meta-complain.
    - melling 5y ago
  - verve_rat 5y ago
    Fine, you start. What is your first idea for discussion?
- aszen 5y ago
  The congress wants Ukranians to die fighting and weaken Russia by sending them lethal weapons. They don't want to involve themselves directly
  - mcguire 5y ago
    The "congress", or rather the military and civilian executives (Congress hasn't really weighed in yet) don't want to be in a position of having two large nuclear forces in direct conflict. For very good reasons.
    - drran 5y ago
      2 large nuclear forces are in conflict already. Ukraine is nuclear country. Nothing nuclear happened during the war with soviets in Vietnam, Korea, etc., or with Russians in Syria. RF is much weaker than USSR.
      - kergonath 5y ago
        > Ukraine is nuclear country. It is not. > Nothing nuclear happened during the war with soviets in Vietnam, Korea, etc., or with Russians in Syria. RF is much weaker than USSR. You don’t need much power to fuck up the planet. A single thermonuclear bomb would suffice and Russia, however weak, has thousands of those.
      - harpersealtako 5y ago
        Can you explain what you mean by "Ukraine is nuclear country"?
        drran 5y ago
        Ukraine had nuclear weapons. Ukraine has weapon grade nuclear reactors, which produces plutonium. Ukrainian engineers developed equipment and rockets to produce nuclear weapons for USSR. Tactics of using nuclear weapons was part of my education.
      - mcguire 5y ago
esoterae 5y ago
No, this _is_ people doing something. This is people reaching out in a chaotic way to attempt to interrupt/disrupt an apparently in-use insecure method of designating artillery targets. This method of disruption does seem legitimate, and appears that if successful in reaching someone at Google in a position to make a decision, a real difference could be made. Meanwhile, you're suggesting "This does nothing" when in fact, it's a legitimate avenue because, to use your specific quote, "all is fair in love and war". On reflection, I'm completely flummoxed why you would suggest this has no potential. In fact, it seems to be the exact opposite, and quite interesting that these pages are being taken down nearly as quickly as they're posted here. These things taken together suggest that this idea is perceived as dangerous to someone
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rixed 5y ago
In situations like these, I believe the best thing a distant westerner can do to weight against escalation is to keep cold headed, try our best not to fall prey to endoctrination, remind anyone involved to not burn bridges, to never consider others are fundamentally different, etc. If we were in Kyiv right now it could be different, but maybe not. Actually, the Russian invasion has been very low intensity so far and to be frank, if not for the nonstop calls for more action from warmongers on the internet, I would still believe we are still well within the range of peace negociations. I'm conscious how naive this sounds, but after all the Putins and the Bushs can only go to war when their people are filled with enough hatred, that's the first ammo that's ever manufactured.

xxxtentachyon 5y ago

What do you suggest people do? Get on the phone with their congressperson and have them send in a bomber squadron? As far as immediate impact, reporting this in the hopes that it gets taken down seems about as good as anything feasible at the moment.

melling 5y ago
i already made my suggestion and it wasn’t “throw up your hands and say there’s nothing more we can do” “…perhaps discussing real solutions would be more beneficial?” Maybe we come up with nothing but tens of thousands of lives could be saved if we think of something. A week from now the world is going to wish it had done more.
- rimunroe 5y ago
  "Discussing real solutions" sounds about as substantial a suggestion as "throw your hands up and say there's nothing more we can do". People are already talking. It's not suggesting anything more concrete than what's already being done in this conversation.
  - melling 5y ago
    we turned this into a childish discussion on the internet. Tens of thousands of Ukrainians will be dead within a week.
    - mynameisvlad 5y ago
      Who, exactly, do you think the “we” is in this scenario? You’re the one that came in complaining about how nothing is being done and offering a suggestion of… talking, which is what is already happening. When people rightfully pointed this out to you, you suddenly involved “we”. You’re the one that has instigated this meta-discussion, and you just don’t like that people called you out on it.
      - melling 5y ago
        Nah, i’ve got a thick skin. I’ve been on the Internet for over three decades. I’ve been doing this since the Usenet days. I’ll let you guys get back to saying how bad the Russians are for using Google maps. Forget I even brought up the brainstorming idea. Quite honestly I should have know people would go with “you first”. But when I go with “me first” people spend the entire time talking about how it’s a bad idea, missing the point completely A lot of people here probably don’t even remember the Cold War. It’s all about to get pretty real. Considering all the people who are going to die, I had to try.
        mynameisvlad 5y ago
        "Trying" is actually brainstorming. Telling people that they're not helping and that they should brainstorm instead is not "trying". At best, it's yelling from the sidelines that nothing is getting done and everyone should feel bad.
        hedora 5y ago
        I mean this conversation could go somewhere. I'm sure someone here can get access to the maps backend and redirect a few missiles if the rumors are true. This crowd is probably 99th percentile in working out the details. (That is to say, probably not competent at it, which is better than "definitely not") Also, you can bet concrete actionable suggestions made here will bubble up to silicon valley execs by the morning.
- mynameisvlad 5y ago
  So your suggestion is to just…. Talk about something else? Cool, can’t wait to see the thread you start discussing these important things.
- darkerside 5y ago
  Your answer is to talk about. So, talk about it. Or are you saying someone else should solve this for you?
- tenuousemphasis 5y ago
  Literally all you're doing is meta-complaining, you're not offering any solutions either. Now you've forced me to meta-meta-complain.
  - melling 5y ago
- verve_rat 5y ago
  Fine, you start. What is your first idea for discussion?
aszen 5y ago
The congress wants Ukranians to die fighting and weaken Russia by sending them lethal weapons. They don't want to involve themselves directly
- mcguire 5y ago
  The "congress", or rather the military and civilian executives (Congress hasn't really weighed in yet) don't want to be in a position of having two large nuclear forces in direct conflict. For very good reasons.
  - drran 5y ago
    2 large nuclear forces are in conflict already. Ukraine is nuclear country. Nothing nuclear happened during the war with soviets in Vietnam, Korea, etc., or with Russians in Syria. RF is much weaker than USSR.
    - kergonath 5y ago
      > Ukraine is nuclear country. It is not. > Nothing nuclear happened during the war with soviets in Vietnam, Korea, etc., or with Russians in Syria. RF is much weaker than USSR. You don’t need much power to fuck up the planet. A single thermonuclear bomb would suffice and Russia, however weak, has thousands of those.
    - harpersealtako 5y ago
      Can you explain what you mean by "Ukraine is nuclear country"?
      - drran 5y ago
        Ukraine had nuclear weapons. Ukraine has weapon grade nuclear reactors, which produces plutonium. Ukrainian engineers developed equipment and rockets to produce nuclear weapons for USSR. Tactics of using nuclear weapons was part of my education.
    - mcguire 5y ago

esoterae 5y ago

No, this _is_ people doing something. This is people reaching out in a chaotic way to attempt to interrupt/disrupt an apparently in-use insecure method of designating artillery targets. This method of disruption does seem legitimate, and appears that if successful in reaching someone at Google in a position to make a decision, a real difference could be made. Meanwhile, you're suggesting "This does nothing" when in fact, it's a legitimate avenue because, to use your specific quote, "all is fair in love and war". On reflection, I'm completely flummoxed why you would suggest this has no potential. In fact, it seems to be the exact opposite, and quite interesting that these pages are being taken down nearly as quickly as they're posted here. These things taken together suggest that this idea is perceived as dangerous to someone

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rixed 5y ago

In situations like these, I believe the best thing a distant westerner can do to weight against escalation is to keep cold headed, try our best not to fall prey to endoctrination, remind anyone involved to not burn bridges, to never consider others are fundamentally different, etc. If we were in Kyiv right now it could be different, but maybe not. Actually, the Russian invasion has been very low intensity so far and to be frank, if not for the nonstop calls for more action from warmongers on the internet, I would still believe we are still well within the range of peace negociations. I'm conscious how naive this sounds, but after all the Putins and the Bushs can only go to war when their people are filled with enough hatred, that's the first ammo that's ever manufactured.