5 ms·

It seems to me that Putin invasion is stepping on egg shells because, as they stated, they are only interested in military targets, and a quick surrender. Altho

It seems to me that Putin invasion is stepping on egg shells because, as they stated, they are only interested in military targets, and a quick surrender. Although the war propaganda is scaring everyone and making this objective more difficult The Russian demand of a neutral Ukraine outside of NATO is not unreasonable US/UK/EU leaders seem really interested in escalation doing everything they can to antagonize everyone against each other, they really don't care how much regular people suffer as long as Russia is "punished" Russia has no interest or capability of taking Ukraine or the EU. Say no to war

minerva23 5y ago
- leobg 5y ago
  I think it might be more valuable for everyone here if you pointed out factual errors instead of making sweeping statements like that.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Kyiv TV Tower was just hit today. Feel free to find the footage, its all over the place, everyone recorded it. Is not a TV-station a civilian target? Or do you think that's a valid military target? ------ Is UK President Zelenskyy a "valid military target" ? He's a civilian, and assassination attempts on civilian leadership is frowned upon. ------------ Its clear that Russia has begun to attack the _civilians_ of Ukraine. Hell, Russia may have been attacking civilians on Day 1, but now we have incredible video evidence of these attacks just a few days in. Anyone claiming that Russia is "only targeting military" ignores the hospitals, neighborhoods, TV-stations, and leadership buildings that have been blown up by the Russians. This isn't just a one-off error, this is going on across Ukraine in general, wherever the Russian military is located. ----- A major Kharkiv government building was just blown up too. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kharkiv-official-russian-missiles-hit-city-administration-residential-areas-2022-03-01/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kharkiv-official-russia... There wasn't any military there. That was a civilian target. Anyone calling these attacks "valid military targets" is clearly tied into Russian propaganda. Maybe they aren't aware of it and are just copy/pasting their "trusted news sources", but now is the time to wake up and realize that they're being mislead by the Russian government. Its utterly simple to prove that civilians are dying here. We got videos of it after all, we're in the smartphone age.
  - witrak 5y ago
    This part o the discussion is not on facts but opinions. You seem to allow guilhas to express highly arguable opinions but at the same time don't allow a (no less justified) opinion about guilhas.
  - olliej 5y ago
    They repeatedly call the Russian invasion of Crimea a civil war, they claim that Russia has a right to further invade the rest of Ukraine due to Ukraine attempt to resist an invasion, they have been repeatedly documented deliberately targeting civilian structures (here's a hint: civilian housing in cities, childr cancer hospitals, etc are not military targets). They also repeatedly (in the face of direct evidence) claim that Russia "doesn't want a war", just total capitulation and surrender of Ukraine. At best they're a useful patsy, at worst this is their job.
Imnimo 5y ago
>The Russian demand of a neutral Ukraine outside of NATO is not unreasonable. Ukraine is not Russia's vassal. The ones who get to decide what alliances Ukraine is part of are the Ukrainians. Any "demand" on that question on the part of another nation is unreasonable on its face.
- guilhas 5y ago
  Agree, But is understandable how NATO troops and ballistic missiles at their doorstep could be a worry for them. Same as USA would not accept if Canada and Mexico joined some kind of Russian defence union, as we still remember from the 'Cuban missile crises' And we also still remember US/UK/EU... invaded and bombed Iraq, Libya and Syria and demanded their leaders to step down. And specially in Syria all US made polls indicated that the population was happy with their leader. All those countries population live in worse conditions today And Ukraine is also in a civil war since 2014 So I would prefer that there was no invasions anywhere, and Ukraine had said no to NATO. But weighting everything I say I am not interested in a world war 3
  - Imnimo 5y ago
    Other countries doing unreasonable things does not make Russia's demands "reasonable".
    - guilhas 5y ago
      I am not saying it is reasonable in itself I am saying it does not justify world war 3 It does not justify higher energy prices. It does not justify disenfranchise regular Russians. I don't want to pay for it, I will not fight for it
    - sinyug 5y ago
      > Other countries doing unreasonable things Ukraine itself was part of the illegal invasion of Iraq.
      - giveyouareply 5y ago
olliej 5y ago
> The Russian demand of a neutral Ukraine outside of NATO is not unreasonable Talk of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU was significantly influenced by Russia's invasion of Crimea. Russia was not demanding neutrality, it is demanding Ukraine be a vassal state under the threat of .. making it a vassal by force. > Russia has no interest or capability of taking Ukraine or the EU. Say no to war They literally invaded Ukraine, and are deliberately using illegal munitions on civilian targets.
- foverzar 5y ago
  > Talk of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU was significantly influenced by Russia's invasion of Crimea It was long before that. Ukraine was practically pushed towards joining NATO during Bush Administration using any "soft" means possible. Euromaidan (which the US had actively engaged in) also happened before Crimea, not after. > deliberately using illegal munitions on civilian targets Any solid source to that? Doesn't seem like there is any possible reason for that, other than completely demonizing someone's image.
  - tguvot 5y ago
    >Any solid source to that? Doesn't seem like there is any possible reason for that, other than completely demonizing someone's image. Those https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t27gu7/butterfly_landmines_do_not_touch_these/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t27gu7/butterfly_l... lovely things were found at second day around bombed school or kindergarten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1 . It's usually been delivered by uragan system Also there are video recording of cluster munition exploding in residential areas in kharkiv and empty uragan sized rockets with cassets for munition stuck in ground near by.
    - foverzar 5y ago
      Sorry, but r/ukraine has hardly been a solid source for the last few years. I've already seen a few older videos of Ukraine Armed Forces attacks on Donetsk being presented as "new videos of Russian armed forces bombing civilians", just as Arma 3 gameplay videos: https://www.pcgamer.com/arma-3-clips-masquerading-as-footage-of-the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-amassed-more-than-110000-views-before-being-removed/ https://www.pcgamer.com/arma-3-clips-masquerading-as-footage... Reports of soviet munitions, coming from the country that has been one of the centers of soviet military-industrial complex, raise some skepticism.

minerva23 5y ago

leobg 5y ago
I think it might be more valuable for everyone here if you pointed out factual errors instead of making sweeping statements like that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Kyiv TV Tower was just hit today. Feel free to find the footage, its all over the place, everyone recorded it. Is not a TV-station a civilian target? Or do you think that's a valid military target? ------ Is UK President Zelenskyy a "valid military target" ? He's a civilian, and assassination attempts on civilian leadership is frowned upon. ------------ Its clear that Russia has begun to attack the _civilians_ of Ukraine. Hell, Russia may have been attacking civilians on Day 1, but now we have incredible video evidence of these attacks just a few days in. Anyone claiming that Russia is "only targeting military" ignores the hospitals, neighborhoods, TV-stations, and leadership buildings that have been blown up by the Russians. This isn't just a one-off error, this is going on across Ukraine in general, wherever the Russian military is located. ----- A major Kharkiv government building was just blown up too. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kharkiv-official-russian-missiles-hit-city-administration-residential-areas-2022-03-01/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kharkiv-official-russia... There wasn't any military there. That was a civilian target. Anyone calling these attacks "valid military targets" is clearly tied into Russian propaganda. Maybe they aren't aware of it and are just copy/pasting their "trusted news sources", but now is the time to wake up and realize that they're being mislead by the Russian government. Its utterly simple to prove that civilians are dying here. We got videos of it after all, we're in the smartphone age.
- witrak 5y ago
  This part o the discussion is not on facts but opinions. You seem to allow guilhas to express highly arguable opinions but at the same time don't allow a (no less justified) opinion about guilhas.
- olliej 5y ago
  They repeatedly call the Russian invasion of Crimea a civil war, they claim that Russia has a right to further invade the rest of Ukraine due to Ukraine attempt to resist an invasion, they have been repeatedly documented deliberately targeting civilian structures (here's a hint: civilian housing in cities, childr cancer hospitals, etc are not military targets). They also repeatedly (in the face of direct evidence) claim that Russia "doesn't want a war", just total capitulation and surrender of Ukraine. At best they're a useful patsy, at worst this is their job.

Imnimo 5y ago

>The Russian demand of a neutral Ukraine outside of NATO is not unreasonable. Ukraine is not Russia's vassal. The ones who get to decide what alliances Ukraine is part of are the Ukrainians. Any "demand" on that question on the part of another nation is unreasonable on its face.

guilhas 5y ago
Agree, But is understandable how NATO troops and ballistic missiles at their doorstep could be a worry for them. Same as USA would not accept if Canada and Mexico joined some kind of Russian defence union, as we still remember from the 'Cuban missile crises' And we also still remember US/UK/EU... invaded and bombed Iraq, Libya and Syria and demanded their leaders to step down. And specially in Syria all US made polls indicated that the population was happy with their leader. All those countries population live in worse conditions today And Ukraine is also in a civil war since 2014 So I would prefer that there was no invasions anywhere, and Ukraine had said no to NATO. But weighting everything I say I am not interested in a world war 3
- Imnimo 5y ago
  Other countries doing unreasonable things does not make Russia's demands "reasonable".
  - guilhas 5y ago
    I am not saying it is reasonable in itself I am saying it does not justify world war 3 It does not justify higher energy prices. It does not justify disenfranchise regular Russians. I don't want to pay for it, I will not fight for it
  - sinyug 5y ago
    > Other countries doing unreasonable things Ukraine itself was part of the illegal invasion of Iraq.
    - giveyouareply 5y ago

olliej 5y ago

> The Russian demand of a neutral Ukraine outside of NATO is not unreasonable Talk of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU was significantly influenced by Russia's invasion of Crimea. Russia was not demanding neutrality, it is demanding Ukraine be a vassal state under the threat of .. making it a vassal by force. > Russia has no interest or capability of taking Ukraine or the EU. Say no to war They literally invaded Ukraine, and are deliberately using illegal munitions on civilian targets.

foverzar 5y ago
> Talk of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU was significantly influenced by Russia's invasion of Crimea It was long before that. Ukraine was practically pushed towards joining NATO during Bush Administration using any "soft" means possible. Euromaidan (which the US had actively engaged in) also happened before Crimea, not after. > deliberately using illegal munitions on civilian targets Any solid source to that? Doesn't seem like there is any possible reason for that, other than completely demonizing someone's image.
- tguvot 5y ago
  >Any solid source to that? Doesn't seem like there is any possible reason for that, other than completely demonizing someone's image. Those https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t27gu7/butterfly_landmines_do_not_touch_these/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t27gu7/butterfly_l... lovely things were found at second day around bombed school or kindergarten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1 . It's usually been delivered by uragan system Also there are video recording of cluster munition exploding in residential areas in kharkiv and empty uragan sized rockets with cassets for munition stuck in ground near by.
  - foverzar 5y ago
    Sorry, but r/ukraine has hardly been a solid source for the last few years. I've already seen a few older videos of Ukraine Armed Forces attacks on Donetsk being presented as "new videos of Russian armed forces bombing civilians", just as Arma 3 gameplay videos: https://www.pcgamer.com/arma-3-clips-masquerading-as-footage-of-the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-amassed-more-than-110000-views-before-being-removed/ https://www.pcgamer.com/arma-3-clips-masquerading-as-footage... Reports of soviet munitions, coming from the country that has been one of the centers of soviet military-industrial complex, raise some skepticism.