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To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to

• rajeshp1986 5y ago
  I don't find any truth in it at all not especially in Silicon Valley. These articles are a coerced effort to bring up the caste divide from India into US and divide the Indian diaspora.
  • simmanian 5y ago
    The article mentions there were hundreds of people who joined a Zoom call to give testimonies. In your view, is the author exaggerating?
    • crate_barre 5y ago
      It could be possible they are projecting the home grown issue of India onto America. Racism is traumatic, and can lead to ptsd. If you dealt with it, you will amplify it wherever you even think it could exist, eg ‘I already know what you think about me’ as an internal thought. Imagine if your whole life you were looked at as X, you will feel like X even if you are in an environment that may not be doing this to you. Severe defensiveness. Not trying to undermine testimony, but life is a spectrum. On the spectrum of all testimonies, there is without a doubt corroborating testimonies that are the result of trauma. I’ll give an example. I’m an alcoholic. There are times my shame is so great that even in random stores where I go to buy some beer, I can feel eyes on me as if the whole world knows I’m an alcoholic. It’s an intense feeling of guilt and shame. Other examples of this are imposter syndrome arising from being doubted. If you ever been doubted in any meaningful way, you can palpably feel the doubt on your skin in new situations - all from past trauma. But in reality, no one may be doubting you in these new situations.
    • diebeforei485 5y ago
      It wasn't clear that they were all living in the US and working for US companies. I would not be surprised if a majority of them were based in India, or based in the US but working for an Indian company (similar to Chinese companies in Italy, who set up factories with exclusively Chinese workers to make leather purses that can be stamped with "Made in Italy").
  • redtriumph 5y ago
    This is just my experience. But I can point you to handful folks from my circle whose friendship worthiness depends on belonging to one of the "dominant caste". In fact, I can also share an anecdote when person A was really fond of person B since B had last name that sounded like one of "dominant caste" last names. Once person A came to know the subtle difference in person B's last name, there was noticeable behavior change in person A.
• Bhilai 5y ago
  A lot of stuff mentioned in the article is true. I would even go ahead (at peril being downvoted by Indian patriots) that India is a deeply racist country. My parents, educated upper middle class working folks use to 'educate' me to not get married outside our caste and such. Caste system is deeply rooted in India and you can pretty much read about it from lots of sources online. India has a lot of right provisions (like the reservation system for SC/ST/OBC akin to affirmative action type of stuff in US if I am not mistaken) but in a typical fashion those provisions are either not applied properly or are abused by people in such categories. India is also a deeply poor country with a history of systemic racism so its not surprising some of the beliefs have landed in silicon valley too. > Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I think its a fair question. Its not as much about where a person is from but "what caste they belong to" type of stuff that might be offensive.
  • lisper 5y ago
    It would never even occur to me to ask someone what caste they were from, not just in Silicon Valley where I happen to live, but anywhere in the U.S. Seriously, who does that?
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    • samizdette 5y ago
      I grew up around a lot of Indian people, and I have definitely had the curiosity to know how to ask, but at the same time known that it would be taboo. I can only guess from their wealth or their last names.
    • AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
      It actually does occur to me, mostly because I'm curious if all of my coworkers are of Brahmin caste. It doesn't matter to me personally, but obviously it would be of interest if all of the people in the Managerial or Lead roles are from a certain caste, while all of the lower-level Devs are in another.
• cscurmudgeon 5y ago
  A lot of it is FUD. California withdrew it's Cisco case but you wont' see any coverage of that here. https://thewire.in/caste/california-drops-caste-discrimination-case-against-cisco-says-will-re-file https://thewire.in/caste/california-drops-caste-discriminati... I am from India and have been in the US for more than a decade. I come from a low caste. The only folks who have asked about my caste and asked if I am from a higher caste are white Americans due to my vegetarianism (voluntary for ethical reasons). > Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? No, not at all. But I did get upset when my PhD advisor (a white American) wanted to know if I was from the priestly class. There is definitely casteism in India, but I have not seen it in Silicon Valley. Casteism is there in India and is unfortunately widespread but steadily disappearing. India's PM and President are from lower castes but you won't see coverage of that in Western news.
  • Bhilai 5y ago
    Who is spreading the FUD and why?
  • bajirao 5y ago
    >I come from a low caste. The only folks who have asked about my caste and asked if I am from a higher caste are white Americans due to my vegetarianism (voluntary for ethical reasons). Because other Indians will identify your caste based on your last name, food habits, dialect, your family business (etc). They don't need to ask you.
    • cscurmudgeon 5y ago
      > Because other Indians will identify your caste based on your last name, food habits, dialect, your family business (etc). They don't need to ask you. False. This is a broad generalization. Some large states in India use paternal names as last names. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronymic#India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronymic#India
      • sa1 5y ago
        Only as a result of a successful movement against casteism in only a couple of Indian states.
• dhanvantharim1 5y ago
  Its possible some of it is true, I know well educated brahmin acquaintances who have outright said they are superior. I look like a brahmin person and they tend to let their guard down around me, But no one has ever asked me about my caste (Maybe because they assume my caste based on how I look). At the same time there are lots frivolous lawsuits from the groups mentioned in this article so its hard to say.
  • fhrow4484 5y ago
    > I look like a brahmin person > they assume my caste based on how I look I'm curious in this comment, are you dressing up a certain way that is typical of brahmin, or are there some other characteristics that makes you look brahmin?
    • danans 5y ago
      Due to historical endogamy of Indian castes, there are very often phenotypes that are associated with relative position in the caste hierarchy. This is highly regional, and far from exact, but leads to examples like the GP gave. These patterns are often used by people as a shorthand for categorizing another's relative caste and often as the basis for discrimination. At a very broad generalization, upper caste individuals tend to skew more toward more west asian, and less regional/indigenous phenotypes. The trait most strongly associated with higher caste is fairer complexion, which is the basis of great deal of South Asian discrimination, and has ancient roots reaching back millennia, though it was reinforced by colonial powers. There are many exceptions to this though, and a lot of stories about people being misidentified as one caste it the other on the basis of complexion. People pay close attention to this because phenotypes are a type of currency, especially in matters related to marriage and community identification, and also power relationships.
      • gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
        We stamped this kind of thinking out of Europe in the 40s. Shame it wasn’t all over the world, but… scope creep
• 12ian34 5y ago
  I'm Indian born with British nationality and I look Indian. It doesn't bother me if people ask me where I'm from - I am often curious about where others are from. It does, however, start to slightly grate if upon me responding with "I'm British", I am quizzed further with "But... where are you really from?" I hear this less nowadays, but it used to be common enough to "slightly grate", particularly from older, Caucasian Brits. Not everyone that is British/American is also Caucasian. I don't think you should stop asking people where they are from. But perhaps don't interrogate them (we get enough of that at airports), implying that they're obstructing their true origin from you. Also, tone matters, whether you like it or not. Saying "where are you from" can sound genuinely curious, but it can easily sound disgusted and derogatory. On any implied caste system, I can speak for the London tech startup world in which I've worked for several years. I've probably had dozens of (South) Asian colleagues and have never noticed the slightest hint of intra-Asian racism or classism.
  • pinephoneguy 5y ago
    Obviously your ancestors aren't British so there's something to the "where are you really from" question. I've been asked similar things even as a White American.
    • 12ian34 5y ago
      Sure, but imagine the scenario that you're one of about 5 non-white people in your entire school life, and the area you lived in has a similar demographic. You might feel generally more alienated from society. It might make it slightly harder to accept/understand your own identity, and being quizzed about it further (at times when you've already mentioned your nationality) is unlikely to help.
    • camtarn 5y ago
      It has rather different connotations in Britain. As far as I understand it from Americans I know, quite a few people in the US have a fascination with where their, and others', ancestors came from, so it could be a fairly innocuous question. Pretty much any American I know would happily rattle off an answer of 'oh, I'm half Irish, a quarter French, and a quarter Spanish' or something similar. Here in the UK, even though we're also a nation of immigrants and invaders throughout history, there is much more of an attitude of 'people whose ancestors have always been here' ('British') versus 'immigrants' ('not really British') - even if the 'immigrants' are from families who have also been here for generations. So yeah. Generally 'but where are you really from?' means something a little like 'I don't believe that you're one of us people who have always been here'. Whether that's malicious or just naive depends on the person, but I can imagine it gets pretty tiring. (I'm the son of a Chinese immigrant, but due to my other parent being Scottish I pass for white and thus I've never actually been asked the question!)
• vl 5y ago
  While not direct example of this, everyone who worked at big corps saw tight clusters of Indian managers that took over some orgs. Another example of "national specialization" is some groups working on some high-complexity software that primarily would be stuffed with Russian/east-European engineers.
• bajirao 5y ago
  Its 100% true in my experience. You can identify caste of most Indians based on their last names. This is one of the reasons some Indians do not use last name at all. (e.g. from Tamil Nadu or from Northern states of India). At work you can't hide your last name, so other Indian co-workers can identify your caste with trivial effort. However, I try to hide my last name in any type of social (non-work) related conversations and try to avoid any groups where group members are really curious about my last name.
• manquer 5y ago
  --- I don't think any one would be threatened by asking where they are from, even in India unless you grew up around in the same state or region, location is not a nuance (in the caste sense) you would be able to easily get. For example some one from the south, won't know anything about punjabi castes or where they hail from, even one state over it is hard to know they would usually speak a different language after all. A foreigner asking is generally not considered threatening, they however might be worried you would say something to another indian colleague without understanding the implication and that can be difficult for them. --- Most of the article is certainly true, it is important to note that all groups discriminate not just ones on top, disproportionately high representation of forward communities among the Indian diaspora makes it seem it similar to black racism here it is more complex than that [1] There many groups collectively known as dalits, form one end of the spectrum, other castes form the middle, and forward/dominating castes a the end, every group discriminates against everyone else, and there are sub groups within groups. family, lineage, language, color, religion[2], region and dozen other factors to break into further sub groups. It shouldn't be that surprising, India as country has as much or more diversity and double the population of Europe. You find similar discrimination of Europeans too, by country (Poland,Serbia etc), region of a country, language (Catalans), groups (gypsies) race/skin, religion (even with Christianity: Catholic, orthodox, Protestants etc ) and so on and on. -- [1] This happens because these groups have access to more funding/ education, relatives already living give a boost and so on [2] Caste is not limited to Hindus, there are plenty of communities where you will find mix of Hindus and Christians, or Muslims , depending who is dominant the others would be discriminated
• dotnet00 5y ago
  I have never personally experienced it and never really learned anything about castes the way others seem to treat them (ie I couldn't tell a person's caste from their last name). I have noticed that some people's first question after hearing a name is to confirm which caste that would refer to, but I've never really seen it as all too meaningful beyond an odd curiosity. As such I don't really feel particularly threatened by being asked where I'm from. I do have a bias towards groups with more diverse teams (ie not just Indians) but that's more about enjoying the cultural exchange that comes with that instead of the homogeneity and conflict that can come from staying within one's own cultural influence. If anything I've seen much more nepotism than casteism.
• mama123 5y ago
  Historically peoples names included their village name, son of x and their caste/jaati - which indicated their profession or specialization. That meant getting new business when introducing themselves in the neighboring village. This is true with European names too (masson, taylor, carpenter, miller ....), and has the exact same origin. However, today due to the politicization first by the colonialists and the church, and now mostly by a leftist-church nexus it has become politically incorrect if it feels like they have an agenda behind it. Strangely at least among the current generation, I have experienced probing questions about my diet as well as probing hands (pretending to be a friendly shove or pat) not from Hindus but from Christians. In my understanding it is a way for them to ensure that I am not an "evil Brahmin" and can be trusted enough to part take in what every gossip they have and an assumption I would have to submissively accept their "righteousness".
  • random314 5y ago
    This has to the most contrived and ridiculous comment I have seen. Virtually all Brahmins proudly advertise their caste and their caste is also obvious from their last name. There is literally no need to pat their backs.
    • diebeforei485 5y ago
      > Virtually all Brahmins proudly advertise their caste Nonsense. > and their caste is also obvious from their last name What exactly do you suggest be done about this?
      • random314 5y ago
        I am calling you out for your fake story of Christians trying to figure out who is a brahmin by patting their backs. It is completely unnecessary as you can tell who is a brahmin from the last name. You just made up a fake story to play victim and transfer blame to Christians here and in several other comments. It is a well known fact that the primary form of caste discrimination occurs against lower castes by upper castes. Your attempts at subterfuge are futile.
• mohanmcgeek 5y ago
  You can't find somebody's caste from knowing where they're from. But last names generally are associated with their caste. For this reason, my state got rid of surnames ~50 years ago. It sure is inconvenient in some places: I have to explain that I don't have a last name and that they're calling me by my father's first name. But given the pros, I don't know why the other states haven't followed suit
• newyankee 5y ago
  I was in US before but not any more. I would say there are subconscious traits in people which are influenced by Caste more than anything else which I started picking up when I started working. I grew up in a very caste agnostic and liberal city in India. There are actually numerous divisions in society which may exist more in the rural areas than urban but it is just the way people cluster. I want to put forward a few points without any specific order - Have found regional identities to be stronger than others. Some regional identities based on languages and ability to form together as a group are much stronger than others (Punjabis, Gujaratis and last decade or 2, Telugu people) - Some communities in India like business communities of Jains and Marwaris are quite closed like Jewish folks in some instances. They do not allow other folks inside their sanctum - Fights are mostly a symptom of other issues - limited resources, significant population and a lot of it are kept alive by the democratic nature of the country where politicians exploit the divisions - Affirmative action has made it much easier for people for downtrodden communities (SC, ST) to get Govt jobs, promotions etc. However a lot of these benefits are only accruing to second and third generation of privileged people from their caste and festers resentment in middle class whether urban or otherwise including myself who is classified as OBC (Other backward classes) which is one of the most illogical way of grouping people as any. A lot of OBCs have a lot of land and wield a lot of power I just want to say that the issue is very complicated and also has a lot of colonial influence still hanging around it to this day. Having said that, things are so much better than what they were 3-4 decades ago based upon my conversation with family elders. PS. - Anecdata. I was rejected by many SC/ST i.e. women from backward castes in arranged marriage website because they did not want to lose the "privilege" affirmative action will bring to their children. Ultimately I had to find someone from my own caste. My attempt to be open minded and different fell flat on its face.
• throwaway_281 5y ago
  No not really. In some cases the village might indicate one's caste. In most cases, it does not. If two Indians are from the same region, they know the demographic of that region pretty well. So, that might be revelatory. But this is only true for some regions in India where villages are segregated. Most villages in India are not segregated, i.e. Brahmins, upper-caste (they call themselves that), general castes, Dalits live together. But the neighborhoods are often segregated. But they do go to the same schools. But as you are not an Indian, whether the one being asked is a Brahmin or a Dalit, will not tell you his village name- simply because you will not know it. And in megacities, people from every caste are there. As someone from outside India, you can safely ask where someone is from. They will probably tell you- "Mumbai" or "a small village near Delhi". No risk there. Never ever ask people their caste.
• s_trumpet 5y ago
  Yes. I'm Indian, lower-caste (not Dalit) with a surname that does not reveal it, working in India. One of my most vivid memories is hearing colleagues at my first job (a large multinational conglomerate) casually use caste slurs (ch*mar) in my presence. Ever since, I never enter discussions about politics or religion. I keep my cards close to my chest.