10 ms·

FYI: $150K salaries for new grads are extremely rare. Only a select few companies offer that range and they're highly selective for a very small number of gradu

FYI: $150K salaries for new grads are extremely rare. Only a select few companies offer that range and they're highly selective for a very small number of graduates. The median salary for all software engineers in the United States is quite a bit less than $150K. Only within a tiny bubble are new grads paid $150K+

comp_throw7 5y ago
Is 5% "extremely rare"? I bet at least 5% of new grads are making that kind of money, given that the companies that pay that kind of money employ 8-10% of the engineers in the country, and I suspect hire a disproportionately large % of new grads relative to the industry as a whole. (So that number could be as high as 10-15%.)
seattle_spring 5y ago
Tiny geographic bubbles, maybe, but I would hazard to guess a whole lot more software jobs exist in those bubbles compared to the landmass they occupy.
softwarebeware 5y ago
For Silicon Valley, New York, and Seattle, at least, $150k yearly is below average market value for new grads. (I may even be missing some development centers.) "Salary" may be lower than that, but not total compensation including cash and stock bonuses.
jandrese 5y ago
I was trying to say that a junior developer may not have a realistic idea of how much experience they actually have. They don't know what they don't know.
BLO716 5y ago
So, I'm going to be more pragmatic than most to say there are differences in pay based on a huge number of factors, but I'm going to use my example based where I live, my history in IT (clinical research, energy sectors), cost-of-living, and technical schools in my area and how it all plays out on pay in my general area vs. the large metro in NY -> New York City. 1. Location - location dictates above all else, what you can earn. The local economy, and what it produces and how much income / wealth the area can support is what I see is the biggest factor. With remote work being a BIG COVID outgrowth driving up homes in rural towns with great internet connectivity, being the exception in recent memory (housing process are blowing up in crazy areas, because tech workers are moving out of big cities - real deal, ya'll). If an economy can support a tech force and pay them well, then that's a huge reason why pay can be unusually high in some areas. I call this this cyclone catalyst, because diversified industries of skilled knowledge workers make it rich with talent. Think Charlotte is a good example of this. Keeping it short, and sweet because we have more ground to cover. 2. I have 20+ years in tech, and not seeking management I am often yearly compensated accordingly, so my prospects for 150k+ are promising. Now, Junior engineers / developers in my general region will make between 60-100K depending on experience (in a stack), degree (industrial players in the area) and who you know (small town politics). But my economy in Buffalo doesn't attract the proper amount of talent it should despite being diversified in industrial and start-ups (but that's changing with 43N in the last 5 years), because of the taxes business have to pay in a pro-employee environment like our state [not a bad thing, but staying out of the politics naturally]. We are healthy though, because of #3. 3. Cost-of-Living - it's still very cheap to live in Buffalo. Much like any of the Rust Belt (aka any manufacturing city in the Great Lakes region from the 1900-2000s that lost industry to China, etc), we have seen revitalization by necessity and since attracting big industry players w/o billion-dollar tax breaks for what seems forever (think Riverbend project for Tesla/Panasonic) we are a multi-industry city, but we have an ever expanding older population and top-notch medical / healthcare industry that is slaying it between Cleveland and Buffalo (not to mention Toronto's influence). However, much like the rest of the country its starting to become unbearable to buy a house, with recent outbids in my own experience on our 2nd house by 30-50K (houses such as $300K can easily fetch $375K in a bidding war - VERY OFTEN!). I can't see this being sustainable, however. COVID really did a number on our housing market, but its gotta crater at some point. Lastly ... 4. Technical degree programs in the area are just insanely high for the Rochester / Syracuse / Buffalo area and with deep ethnical roots with family, I find a lot of people really yearn to return to the area. As 43N and other industries like banking and clinical research, and in a smaller part energy (hydro, solar, geothermal, and the like) keep putting deeper stakes in the ground (almost doubling down), we'll continue to retain more and more of our never ending supply of computer science grads from University at Buffalo in particular. Bottom like, there are like 100 factors, but for me, these 4 seem to drive pay around here. We can't support the $150-200K jobs in tech, no matter how you spin it. However, we have more than our share of 80-100K jobs to go around. I think Buffalo's play is quantity over scarcity because of the 4 major factors in our area. This is different for different people, but I think its fairly accurate for our town.

comp_throw7 5y ago

Is 5% "extremely rare"? I bet at least 5% of new grads are making that kind of money, given that the companies that pay that kind of money employ 8-10% of the engineers in the country, and I suspect hire a disproportionately large % of new grads relative to the industry as a whole. (So that number could be as high as 10-15%.)

seattle_spring 5y ago

Tiny geographic bubbles, maybe, but I would hazard to guess a whole lot more software jobs exist in those bubbles compared to the landmass they occupy.

softwarebeware 5y ago

For Silicon Valley, New York, and Seattle, at least, $150k yearly is below average market value for new grads. (I may even be missing some development centers.) "Salary" may be lower than that, but not total compensation including cash and stock bonuses.

jandrese 5y ago

I was trying to say that a junior developer may not have a realistic idea of how much experience they actually have. They don't know what they don't know.

BLO716 5y ago

So, I'm going to be more pragmatic than most to say there are differences in pay based on a huge number of factors, but I'm going to use my example based where I live, my history in IT (clinical research, energy sectors), cost-of-living, and technical schools in my area and how it all plays out on pay in my general area vs. the large metro in NY -> New York City. 1. Location - location dictates above all else, what you can earn. The local economy, and what it produces and how much income / wealth the area can support is what I see is the biggest factor. With remote work being a BIG COVID outgrowth driving up homes in rural towns with great internet connectivity, being the exception in recent memory (housing process are blowing up in crazy areas, because tech workers are moving out of big cities - real deal, ya'll). If an economy can support a tech force and pay them well, then that's a huge reason why pay can be unusually high in some areas. I call this this cyclone catalyst, because diversified industries of skilled knowledge workers make it rich with talent. Think Charlotte is a good example of this. Keeping it short, and sweet because we have more ground to cover. 2. I have 20+ years in tech, and not seeking management I am often yearly compensated accordingly, so my prospects for 150k+ are promising. Now, Junior engineers / developers in my general region will make between 60-100K depending on experience (in a stack), degree (industrial players in the area) and who you know (small town politics). But my economy in Buffalo doesn't attract the proper amount of talent it should despite being diversified in industrial and start-ups (but that's changing with 43N in the last 5 years), because of the taxes business have to pay in a pro-employee environment like our state [not a bad thing, but staying out of the politics naturally]. We are healthy though, because of #3. 3. Cost-of-Living - it's still very cheap to live in Buffalo. Much like any of the Rust Belt (aka any manufacturing city in the Great Lakes region from the 1900-2000s that lost industry to China, etc), we have seen revitalization by necessity and since attracting big industry players w/o billion-dollar tax breaks for what seems forever (think Riverbend project for Tesla/Panasonic) we are a multi-industry city, but we have an ever expanding older population and top-notch medical / healthcare industry that is slaying it between Cleveland and Buffalo (not to mention Toronto's influence). However, much like the rest of the country its starting to become unbearable to buy a house, with recent outbids in my own experience on our 2nd house by 30-50K (houses such as $300K can easily fetch $375K in a bidding war - VERY OFTEN!). I can't see this being sustainable, however. COVID really did a number on our housing market, but its gotta crater at some point. Lastly ... 4. Technical degree programs in the area are just insanely high for the Rochester / Syracuse / Buffalo area and with deep ethnical roots with family, I find a lot of people really yearn to return to the area. As 43N and other industries like banking and clinical research, and in a smaller part energy (hydro, solar, geothermal, and the like) keep putting deeper stakes in the ground (almost doubling down), we'll continue to retain more and more of our never ending supply of computer science grads from University at Buffalo in particular. Bottom like, there are like 100 factors, but for me, these 4 seem to drive pay around here. We can't support the $150-200K jobs in tech, no matter how you spin it. However, we have more than our share of 80-100K jobs to go around. I think Buffalo's play is quantity over scarcity because of the 4 major factors in our area. This is different for different people, but I think its fairly accurate for our town.