4 ms·

> Even a small company - or especially one - will certainly have a ballpark range in mind for what's possible. Even if a wide one, they could offer quick guidan

> Even a small company - or especially one - will certainly have a ballpark range in mind for what's possible. Even if a wide one, they could offer quick guidance with something like: Looking for help! CTO / VP ($100-$150k), Developers / PMs ($80-120k). In the tech startups I've worked for, we did not actually have fixed, pre-approved salary ranges like that. Startups tend to gather a wide range of talent from recent grads through ex-FAANG employees and you need to be prepared to rise to whatever level is necessary to hire whoever comes through your application process. But the real problem is that requiring specific positions and specific job postings changes the thread from something where anyone can invite people to apply to something that is essentially an extension of their company's HR department. > Even if a wide one, they could offer quick guidance with something like: Looking for help! CTO / VP ($100-$150k), Developers / PMs ($80-120k). You may think those ranges are wide, but they don't even come close to the variation we got at startups. When you're hiring developers straight out of college and also straight out of FAANG companies your compensation range from low to high can extend to a 5X difference or more.

beachy 5y ago
Not in favour of any mandatory salary labels. But: > But the real problem is that requiring specific positions and specific job postings changes the thread from something where anyone can invite people to apply to something that is essentially an extension of their company's HR department. If you have managers inviting people to apply, but without any approval by HR, you're setting yourself - and particularly your candidates - up for some hideous experiences. Of course if you're so small you don't have any HR then fine, you're a classic startup, do whatever works.
chipotle_coyote 5y ago
> When you're hiring developers straight out of college and also straight out of FAANG companies your compensation range from low to high can extend to a 5X difference or more. I wonder whether that kind of variation in compensation is really good, presuming we're talking about hiring into comparable roles. I'm familiar with the whole "10x performer" trope, and I get that there's value in flexibility rather than sticking to a rigid "Someone with this title and this many years of service in the company gets paid this much with 5% variance" formula. But it seems like "Agatha, George, and Bob are all 'Software Engineer II' but George makes 2x what Agatha does and Bob makes 2x what George does, because we hired Bob away from Google, George has no experience but he just graduated from Stanford, and Agatha was a star performer wasting her time at an office park in Boise" is a setup for some pretty hard feelings -- or worse -- if the pay disparity becomes known.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  The hard feelings only come if there was already a veil of equal pay. No one in finance or sales balks at coworkers earning much more than others, because the expectation is that individuals have different market prices. If Agatha and George are unhappy they are earning less than others, then they are free to go find another job. When, and if they cannot, they will quickly learn to be happy with the maximum they can get, even if someone else is earning more. Just like they already are happy with sports and movie stars earning more.
- sangnoir 5y ago
  > Agatha was a star performer wasting her time at an office park in Boise Why is Agatha being paid less here? Just because she has not FAANG experience? Also, lumping them all under SWE II is dishonest (to hide the disparity)
  - chipotle_coyote 5y ago
    Probably Agatha is being paid less at the new job because she was paid a comparatively low salary at her previous one. To a degree, companies have to consider the candidate's salary history when they make an offer -- say their target for a position is a $175K salary, and someone they really want to hire is already making that at their current company. They have to decide whether or not they can offer more and, if so, whether to. The flip side of that, though, is that if someone in a much, much lower-salary market than Silicon Valley (e.g., virtually all of them) is making $80K, you could offer the the $175K you'd offer someone locally, but you could just offer $120K. Look! It's a 50% salary increase! Fantastic...? > Also, lumping them all under SWE II is dishonest (to hide the disparity) While I picked SWE II arbitrarily, the notion that there was such a wide range of salaries offered for essentially the same position seem to be the point of the comment I was replying to. If it's a startup they'll probably have squishier titles, like just "Developer" or "Engineer", but the point is that if you can have two people on the same team ostensibly at the same level where one is making three times what the other does, it's…curious.
    - sangnoir 5y ago

beachy 5y ago

Not in favour of any mandatory salary labels. But: > But the real problem is that requiring specific positions and specific job postings changes the thread from something where anyone can invite people to apply to something that is essentially an extension of their company's HR department. If you have managers inviting people to apply, but without any approval by HR, you're setting yourself - and particularly your candidates - up for some hideous experiences. Of course if you're so small you don't have any HR then fine, you're a classic startup, do whatever works.

chipotle_coyote 5y ago

> When you're hiring developers straight out of college and also straight out of FAANG companies your compensation range from low to high can extend to a 5X difference or more. I wonder whether that kind of variation in compensation is really good, presuming we're talking about hiring into comparable roles. I'm familiar with the whole "10x performer" trope, and I get that there's value in flexibility rather than sticking to a rigid "Someone with this title and this many years of service in the company gets paid this much with 5% variance" formula. But it seems like "Agatha, George, and Bob are all 'Software Engineer II' but George makes 2x what Agatha does and Bob makes 2x what George does, because we hired Bob away from Google, George has no experience but he just graduated from Stanford, and Agatha was a star performer wasting her time at an office park in Boise" is a setup for some pretty hard feelings -- or worse -- if the pay disparity becomes known.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
The hard feelings only come if there was already a veil of equal pay. No one in finance or sales balks at coworkers earning much more than others, because the expectation is that individuals have different market prices. If Agatha and George are unhappy they are earning less than others, then they are free to go find another job. When, and if they cannot, they will quickly learn to be happy with the maximum they can get, even if someone else is earning more. Just like they already are happy with sports and movie stars earning more.
sangnoir 5y ago
> Agatha was a star performer wasting her time at an office park in Boise Why is Agatha being paid less here? Just because she has not FAANG experience? Also, lumping them all under SWE II is dishonest (to hide the disparity)
- chipotle_coyote 5y ago
  Probably Agatha is being paid less at the new job because she was paid a comparatively low salary at her previous one. To a degree, companies have to consider the candidate's salary history when they make an offer -- say their target for a position is a $175K salary, and someone they really want to hire is already making that at their current company. They have to decide whether or not they can offer more and, if so, whether to. The flip side of that, though, is that if someone in a much, much lower-salary market than Silicon Valley (e.g., virtually all of them) is making $80K, you could offer the the $175K you'd offer someone locally, but you could just offer $120K. Look! It's a 50% salary increase! Fantastic...? > Also, lumping them all under SWE II is dishonest (to hide the disparity) While I picked SWE II arbitrarily, the notion that there was such a wide range of salaries offered for essentially the same position seem to be the point of the comment I was replying to. If it's a startup they'll probably have squishier titles, like just "Developer" or "Engineer", but the point is that if you can have two people on the same team ostensibly at the same level where one is making three times what the other does, it's…curious.
  - sangnoir 5y ago