3 ms·

Decades later, and many, many of both residental, office and infrastructural networks still use Ethernet and it's not going anywhere away soon. Respect. Rest i

Decades later, and many, many of both residental, office and infrastructural networks still use Ethernet and it's not going anywhere away soon. Respect. Rest in peace.

m463 5y ago
> Decades later, and many, many of both residental, office and infrastructural networks still use Ethernet and it's not going anywhere away soon. It's true but kind of funny since ethernet has changed 180 degrees from the original design. I remember tapping thick cables with vampire taps when it was a shared medium with collision detect and now cables are plug and play with a star topology.
- can16358p 5y ago
  Sure. Well some changes are likely to happen in 50 years, especially "cosmetic" ones. But just like USB which now has many form factors, or HTTP with all these added/changed headers, the standard still lives as the king, which is a visionary achievement by itself IMO.
  - wokkel 5y ago
    The change is far from cosmetic: ethernet used to detect collisions on a shared cable and by restricting cable length and timeouts was able to work. What we have now with switches has no collisions and each device has a private cable to the switch. This is a fundamental change and not some cosmetic change.
beachy 5y ago
I remember working at IBM, token ring was the protocol du jure. Someone told me about this crazy non-IBM protocol where you just shoved data into the wires. If it collided with someone else's data - just try again! Thanks to a good helping of fud, there was no doubt in my mind that this was a rubbish approach that wouldn't scale (though obviously it was pretty handy not having to wire your network into a ring configuration).
- sshagent 5y ago
  wow, I've not heard 'token ring' mentioned for a long long while.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    In retrospect, what were Token Ring's downsides that caused it to lose? Requiring shielded twisted pair cabling? Processor costs (when it mattered) and Ethernet's benefiting massively from cheap switches (when hardware costs had dropped)?
    - beachy 5y ago
      I understand it was all about cost and complexity, token ring was superior technically, but as ethernet prices dropped steadily over the years, and its cheaper collision detection approach turned out to usually be "good enough" (especially with the advent of smart switches that made collisions less of an issue), the balance switched in ethernet's favour. Token ring cost 5-6 times as much, and required a special MAU device (the thing that sat on the ring). Then the actual networked computers had a point to point connection to the MAU. Special cabling, not just twisted pair. IBM charged a lot for anyone else to licence the tech. Token ring was clever and worked well though - a heavily used 10Mbps token ring network was far faster than the equivalent ethernet network due to no collisions.
      - ethbr0 5y ago
        Also (and I was fairly young at the time), didn't token ring have some uglier failure modes? E.g. if if the token were lost due to bad cabling / misfunctioning devices? Whereas ethernet degraded more gracefully.
        beachy 5y ago
        Yes, that makes sense to me, not knowing too much about it. I found an interesting article about the various failure modes of token ring, and this is one (alongside the Captured or Corrupted token problems): (ii) If Token is lost: To deal with such situations, it is the responsibility of Monitor to generate new Token. Monitor will wait for Max Token Return Time and if the token is not received then it will generate a new Token.

Decades later, and many, many of both residental, office and infrastructural networks still use Ethernet and it's not going anywhere away soon. Respect. Rest in peace.

m463 5y ago

> Decades later, and many, many of both residental, office and infrastructural networks still use Ethernet and it's not going anywhere away soon. It's true but kind of funny since ethernet has changed 180 degrees from the original design. I remember tapping thick cables with vampire taps when it was a shared medium with collision detect and now cables are plug and play with a star topology.

can16358p 5y ago
Sure. Well some changes are likely to happen in 50 years, especially "cosmetic" ones. But just like USB which now has many form factors, or HTTP with all these added/changed headers, the standard still lives as the king, which is a visionary achievement by itself IMO.
- wokkel 5y ago
  The change is far from cosmetic: ethernet used to detect collisions on a shared cable and by restricting cable length and timeouts was able to work. What we have now with switches has no collisions and each device has a private cable to the switch. This is a fundamental change and not some cosmetic change.

beachy 5y ago

I remember working at IBM, token ring was the protocol du jure. Someone told me about this crazy non-IBM protocol where you just shoved data into the wires. If it collided with someone else's data - just try again! Thanks to a good helping of fud, there was no doubt in my mind that this was a rubbish approach that wouldn't scale (though obviously it was pretty handy not having to wire your network into a ring configuration).

sshagent 5y ago
wow, I've not heard 'token ring' mentioned for a long long while.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  In retrospect, what were Token Ring's downsides that caused it to lose? Requiring shielded twisted pair cabling? Processor costs (when it mattered) and Ethernet's benefiting massively from cheap switches (when hardware costs had dropped)?
  - beachy 5y ago
    I understand it was all about cost and complexity, token ring was superior technically, but as ethernet prices dropped steadily over the years, and its cheaper collision detection approach turned out to usually be "good enough" (especially with the advent of smart switches that made collisions less of an issue), the balance switched in ethernet's favour. Token ring cost 5-6 times as much, and required a special MAU device (the thing that sat on the ring). Then the actual networked computers had a point to point connection to the MAU. Special cabling, not just twisted pair. IBM charged a lot for anyone else to licence the tech. Token ring was clever and worked well though - a heavily used 10Mbps token ring network was far faster than the equivalent ethernet network due to no collisions.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      Also (and I was fairly young at the time), didn't token ring have some uglier failure modes? E.g. if if the token were lost due to bad cabling / misfunctioning devices? Whereas ethernet degraded more gracefully.
      - beachy 5y ago
        Yes, that makes sense to me, not knowing too much about it. I found an interesting article about the various failure modes of token ring, and this is one (alongside the Captured or Corrupted token problems): (ii) If Token is lost: To deal with such situations, it is the responsibility of Monitor to generate new Token. Monitor will wait for Max Token Return Time and if the token is not received then it will generate a new Token.