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The answer is obvious: get rid of sales taxes. They are the stupidest most regressive taxes we have. They are cumbersome, and they screw with price transparency

The answer is obvious: get rid of sales taxes. They are the stupidest most regressive taxes we have. They are cumbersome, and they screw with price transparency, and they shouldn't exist. Incidentally, I support taxes in general and think we need more taxes on a lot of things. But taxes add cost to specific activities, and so they should be used to reduce those activities. Now, we don't want the perverse incentive of government relying on tax revenue and thus otherwise wanting to promote the activity. So, we need to find a balance in all these things. But like taxes on stock-trading would be good. And we should probably increase property taxes and just do the simple thing where property tax rates go up the more properties an entity holds (that makes it harder for investment companies to buy up all the properties and gouge everyone with high rents). But for all the justified complexity of tax policy decisions, sales taxes are the worst and should just be eliminated.

pessimizer 5y ago
Consumption taxes are regressive and punish the poor, but there's a case to be made for taxing transactions, primarily because government is expected to intervene if transactions go wrong. Same for property and wealth taxes, because the government creates property by deciding who owns things, deciding what that means, and intervening in any dispute. There's less of a US case to be made for taxes on wages, but just because the US shits on labor and spends almost no resources in defending it or the health and security of the people who provide it. Other countries that do more have a better case.
krupan 5y ago
Digression into taxes: Property taxes are worse than all other taxes. Why do I have to pay rent to the government for property that I already bought and paid for? Why does the amount of property tax I owe have no relationship to how much gain I actually realize, like income and capital gains taxes? Even sales tax has some sort of relationship to your realized gain (if you have less cash you probably buy less, so you pay less taxes).
- MagnumOpus 5y ago
  Property or land taxes are better than all other taxes, for a number of reasons. * It is hard, nearly impossible to avoid. * In case of nonpayment the property serves as collateral. * Land value depends mostly on public infrastructure paid with public funds - roads, subways, schools etc are all public goods that the property owner profits from via price appreciation but the general taxpayer pays for. So a linkage needs to be established. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism In the words of a famous conservative: "Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains – and all the while the landlord sits still. Every one of those improvements is effected by the labor and cost of other people and the taxpayers. To not one of those improvements does the land monopolist, as a land monopolist, contribute, and yet by every one of them the value of his land is enhanced. He renders no service to the community, he contributes nothing to the general welfare, he contributes nothing to the process from which his own enrichment is derived ... the unearned increment on the land is reaped by the land monopolist in exact proportion, not to the service, but to the disservice done."
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    > Land value depends mostly on public infrastructure paid with public funds - roads, subways, schools etc are all public goods that the property owner profits from via price appreciation but the general taxpayer pays for Spot on. You could think of a city as a "service" that you consume by taking space. The more space you use the more you should pay every month. Even more so if you own a house and leave it unoccupied, because it's wasting public money invested in infrastructure.
  - 6figurelenins 5y ago
    > Land value depends mostly on public infrastructure paid with public funds - roads, subways, schools etc This is a strange conceit. Martha's Vineyard and Maui do not have orders of magnitude better "public infrastructure" than Kansas. If anything, recent US real estate growth is a function of people leaving high-tax areas for inferior asphalt. It ignores that zoning is contentious precisely when "public goods" are perceived to harm land value. There's a circular reasoning in "land monopoly." Cover a grocery store in solar panels: who is "contributing to the general welfare," and who collects free rent?
anamax 5y ago
> The answer is obvious: get rid of sales taxes. You do know that neither merchants nor folks writing tax or sales software can "get rid of sales taxes", right? "Our software doesn't handle that case" isn't a defense against a tax evasion charge. Neither is "I forgot" or "Excuse me", despite what Steve Martin said. https://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77imono.phtml https://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77imono.phtml You.. can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You say.. “Steve.. how can I be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes?” First.. get a million dollars. Now.. you say, “Steve.. what do I say to the tax man when he comes to my door and says, ‘You.. have never paid taxes’?” Two simple words. Two simple words in the English language: “I forgot!” How many times do we let ourselves get into terrible situations because we don’t say “I forgot”? Let’s say you’re on trial for armed robbery. You say to the judge, “I forgot armed robbery was illegal.” Let’s suppose he says back to you, “You have committed a foul crime. you have stolen hundreds and thousands of dollars from people at random, and you say, ‘I forgot’?” Two simple words: Excuuuuuse me!!“
- smoe 5y ago
  > You do know that neither merchants nor folks writing tax or sales software can "get rid of sales taxes", right? On the other hand, folks who write tax or sales software don't need to cater their software to US tax laws. Just don't use it there. At least from Wikipedia it seems, that the project leads are European.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- quadrangle 5y ago
  I thought it was obvious that I was saying that governments should eliminate sales tax. It wasn't in the slightest a suggestion for how software deals with the status quo that has sales taxes. I understand it's not going to happen any time soon and is totally out of the hands of the software developers. I didn't think any of this needed to be said though, I thought everyone would already understand that implication from my comment.

pessimizer 5y ago

Consumption taxes are regressive and punish the poor, but there's a case to be made for taxing transactions, primarily because government is expected to intervene if transactions go wrong. Same for property and wealth taxes, because the government creates property by deciding who owns things, deciding what that means, and intervening in any dispute. There's less of a US case to be made for taxes on wages, but just because the US shits on labor and spends almost no resources in defending it or the health and security of the people who provide it. Other countries that do more have a better case.

krupan 5y ago

Digression into taxes: Property taxes are worse than all other taxes. Why do I have to pay rent to the government for property that I already bought and paid for? Why does the amount of property tax I owe have no relationship to how much gain I actually realize, like income and capital gains taxes? Even sales tax has some sort of relationship to your realized gain (if you have less cash you probably buy less, so you pay less taxes).

MagnumOpus 5y ago
Property or land taxes are better than all other taxes, for a number of reasons. * It is hard, nearly impossible to avoid. * In case of nonpayment the property serves as collateral. * Land value depends mostly on public infrastructure paid with public funds - roads, subways, schools etc are all public goods that the property owner profits from via price appreciation but the general taxpayer pays for. So a linkage needs to be established. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism In the words of a famous conservative: "Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains – and all the while the landlord sits still. Every one of those improvements is effected by the labor and cost of other people and the taxpayers. To not one of those improvements does the land monopolist, as a land monopolist, contribute, and yet by every one of them the value of his land is enhanced. He renders no service to the community, he contributes nothing to the general welfare, he contributes nothing to the process from which his own enrichment is derived ... the unearned increment on the land is reaped by the land monopolist in exact proportion, not to the service, but to the disservice done."
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > Land value depends mostly on public infrastructure paid with public funds - roads, subways, schools etc are all public goods that the property owner profits from via price appreciation but the general taxpayer pays for Spot on. You could think of a city as a "service" that you consume by taking space. The more space you use the more you should pay every month. Even more so if you own a house and leave it unoccupied, because it's wasting public money invested in infrastructure.
- 6figurelenins 5y ago
  > Land value depends mostly on public infrastructure paid with public funds - roads, subways, schools etc This is a strange conceit. Martha's Vineyard and Maui do not have orders of magnitude better "public infrastructure" than Kansas. If anything, recent US real estate growth is a function of people leaving high-tax areas for inferior asphalt. It ignores that zoning is contentious precisely when "public goods" are perceived to harm land value. There's a circular reasoning in "land monopoly." Cover a grocery store in solar panels: who is "contributing to the general welfare," and who collects free rent?

anamax 5y ago

> The answer is obvious: get rid of sales taxes. You do know that neither merchants nor folks writing tax or sales software can "get rid of sales taxes", right? "Our software doesn't handle that case" isn't a defense against a tax evasion charge. Neither is "I forgot" or "Excuse me", despite what Steve Martin said. https://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77imono.phtml https://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77imono.phtml You.. can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You say.. “Steve.. how can I be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes?” First.. get a million dollars. Now.. you say, “Steve.. what do I say to the tax man when he comes to my door and says, ‘You.. have never paid taxes’?” Two simple words. Two simple words in the English language: “I forgot!” How many times do we let ourselves get into terrible situations because we don’t say “I forgot”? Let’s say you’re on trial for armed robbery. You say to the judge, “I forgot armed robbery was illegal.” Let’s suppose he says back to you, “You have committed a foul crime. you have stolen hundreds and thousands of dollars from people at random, and you say, ‘I forgot’?” Two simple words: Excuuuuuse me!!“

smoe 5y ago
> You do know that neither merchants nor folks writing tax or sales software can "get rid of sales taxes", right? On the other hand, folks who write tax or sales software don't need to cater their software to US tax laws. Just don't use it there. At least from Wikipedia it seems, that the project leads are European.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
quadrangle 5y ago
I thought it was obvious that I was saying that governments should eliminate sales tax. It wasn't in the slightest a suggestion for how software deals with the status quo that has sales taxes. I understand it's not going to happen any time soon and is totally out of the hands of the software developers. I didn't think any of this needed to be said though, I thought everyone would already understand that implication from my comment.