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> (The sheer suddenness of the flip on Russia, and its scale, surprises me. We didn't do it when they shot down a passenger jet, or carried out several terroris
by formerly_proven 5y ago
> (The sheer suddenness of the flip on Russia, and its scale, surprises me. We didn't do it when they shot down a passenger jet, or carried out several terrorist attacks with chemical weapons outside the country, or when they supported Assad in Syria, or even the previous time Russia invaded Ukraine. Perhaps if something more graduated had been done earlier we wouldn't be in this position)
Back then I was shocked that one can just invade and annex part of a country in Europe and virtually nothing happens. Sure, a few minor sanctions here and there, but really nothing that would have an effect.
Obviously, the idea was to to appease Russia and try to involve it economically in order to ultimately have it become more liberal and democratic. If you look at Merkels actions in particular, she was using that exact playbook that the US had been using after WW2 in Europe and Germany in particular to great success, but failed in China, and also Russia.
So I think all previous actions have to be seen under this strategy. The full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and direct lies on the diplomatic level before that ("just an exercise, won't invade, calling troops back" etc.) forced the West to concede that appeasement and economic inter-dependency as a strategy failed and that if Putin's Russia succeeds with the invasion in Ukraine, Eastern Europe will be next. So the strategy changed to "Putin cannot be allowed to win in Ukraine".
- pjc50 5y ago> Back then I was shocked that one can just invade and annex part of a country in Europe and virtually nothing happens We allowed them to slice that particular bit of salami, to warm the frog a little; I guess they thought it was a green light to slice further. Heck, their plan came very very close to working; the assumption was that they could land commandos at Kyiv airport, kill Zelensky, install a puppet (as previously) and then muddy the waters in the news (as previously) while the new president of Ukraine thanks them for liberating his country from the Nazis. (this is a statement of what I believe their plan to have been, not an endorsement!)