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I suggest all HN readers use this opportunity to stop using Google accounts, if they haven't done so already. Potential benefits: * Better privacy (on many/mos

I suggest all HN readers use this opportunity to stop using Google accounts, if they haven't done so already. Potential benefits: * Better privacy (on many/most alternatives); Google will no longer read your email, store it for use by themselves and their partners, and perhaps pass a copy along to the NSA as Edward Snowden has revealed happens. * Less exposure to manipulative ads, and lower finesse of manipulation due to less data about you. * Easier for you to turn on ad-blockers without worrying about that also blocking Google junk. * Less chance of Google applying censorship to content you publish or transmit.

bcanzanella 5y ago
What are some alternatives?
- gspr 5y ago
  The only thing I used my google account for was email. There are many good alternatives – I myself have been happy with mailbox.org for years.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Office 365.
  - andrew_ 5y ago
    their web email client continues to be ocular cancer for anyone who isn't already a daily Outlook user.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      I can't stand it nor GMail so I always use a good old local client (Mac Mail or Evolution).
- einpoklum 5y ago
  Here's one survey of alternatives: https://restoreprivacy.com/google-alternatives/ https://restoreprivacy.com/google-alternatives/ Personally, I use: * DDG for search. * gmx.com as my main email server (not sure it's that great for privacy, ProtonMail is probably better). * OpenStreetMap for maps (caveat: Some info is on Google Maps and not on there) * HereWeGo for car navigation * Thunderbird as my mail client + calendar * I don't publish videos, but otherwise probably PeerTube * IRC and Matrix for group chatting * F-Droid for FOSS mobile apps, Aurora for anonymous access to Google Play Store Not yet de-googlified: * I use an Android phone (albeit Chinese) * Still need a good alternative for Google Translate.
  - whyoh 5y ago
    GMX exposes your IP address in email headers.
    - einpoklum 5y ago
      Well, I wasn't expecting it to hide my IP address. By default, the Received headers should show the chain of transmission back to my IP.
tomxor 5y ago
What are the leading recommendations these days? is it still mainly protonmail? I think the features I value most are U2F support and a usable but simple web interface (Gmail's web interface has actually gotten consistency worse over the last decade so I guess that sets a low bar).
- grammers 5y ago
  U2F support was one of the reasons why I picked Tutanota. It's similar to Proton, but with Proton I really missed U2F and they've promised it for ages...
- fullstop 5y ago
  I use protonmail as a second account. It works fine, but there are a few quality of life differences compared to gmail. 1. ProtonMail can not search the contents of messages in the web client, unless you enable local indexing. This downloads all of your messages to the client, and performs the search locally. This, of course, must be done from every web client. It makes sense, given that PM can't see the contents of your messages. The Android app can not search the contents of messages. 2. The Android app does not clear notifications if the message is read elsewhere. This can be annoying when you look at your phone and see notifications for 7 unread messages after they've all been read. Proton supports TOTP only, and not U2F/WebAuthn.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
  I switched from Protonmail to Fastmail (with by own domain) and couldn't be happier. Protonmail locks you in their own clients (on Android at least) and they're shitty (e.g no thread view).
shadowgovt 5y ago
Cons: * While you can Takeout your data, enjoy the process of reshuffling gigabytes of Drive contents, calendar entries, YouTube videos, etc. Into other application systems. * Disconnection from the Cloud makes everything strictly less convenient. "Oh, I'll just throw you a Drive link... Oh wait, I guess I'm going to have to upload it to something else that you may or may not have access to, or email it to you and hope that your email server and my email server agree on what the maximum transfer size is, or I'll upload it to a web server and toss you a password in hope nobody else cracks it while you're getting it because I misconfigured my server." Then, of course, if they need to make changes they'll have to email their copy back to you... Remember the days of report-final-final2-june-version.doc? Enjoy going back to that. * Replacing one set of integrated Google services with a slew of third-party solutions means none of those solutions are expected to work with each other, and while you leave behind the disadvantage that Google could decide your account is terminated and you lose access to everything, you'll be replacing it with a disadvantage that any individual third party provider could pivot or collapse and you lose access to the service they provide. To say nothing of the need to have to track dozens of authentication credentials now, unless you delegate to a third party identification provider (whoops, that's also Google...). And, of course, since they're not funded by the largest advertising network on the planet, at least half those services will charge you money to be less convenient.
- einpoklum 5y ago
  > enjoy the process of reshuffling If you've uploaded it, there's no sense in taking it down. Google already has it. Just don't log-in to Google accounts and don't take their cookies. > I guess I'm going to have to upload it to something else that you may or may not have access to, If you looked into alternatives, you would find many don't require any account or login by the receiving party. Example: box.com links . Actually, I'm pretty sure that's the norm. > I'll upload it to a web server and toss you a password Look, you've been stuck in the Google bubble for too long. The weather is just fine outside.
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    > If you've uploaded it, there's no sense in taking it down. Google already has it. Just don't log-in to Google accounts and don't take their cookies. I meant in terms of making it convenient to use that data in some other environment when one moves away from Google. My Drive contents, for example, will come down in doc formats that may or may not be immediately compatible with whatever I want to move to (be it someone else's cloud or locally-running desktop editors). And it'll all have to be re-indexed for search purposes (unless I just decide "being able to search all my documents regardless of their format" is one of those Drive features I no longer care about). Photos as well... I can pull my photos down, but I'm going to leave behind those "Find all pictures of a cat" or "Find all pictures of my mom" features that Google Photos provide.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
self host your email. mailinabox makes it less than half an hour job. plus occasional updates every few months, nothing big. the upside is, you get to control your emails, your server. the bad thing is, if you get a bad IP (which you can have replaced for example at the start from vps provider) or you do something fishy with your email like spam gmail/yahoo/outlook users, you would be banned but other than that it really isn't all that bad. sure i have to "sometimes" ask people to check spam and set it as not spam but that is becoming more and more remote. i do understand the appeal of protonmail and other privacy centric emails but you can do that yourself if you put in the elbow grease. plus you get to learn about a lot of stuff and its a fun exercise. you also do not have to pay through your nose if you want more features/more storage and stuff (well the storage/server depends on your vps in toto but still)
mnau 5y ago
You are missing key benefit: when Google locks you out of your account, you don't lose access to significant part of your digital life (your email, all these sign with google ect). Google is using law of algorithm, not a rule of law. Trying to get to a person is nearly impossible.
- einpoklum 5y ago
  > when Google locks you out of your account Is lock-out on Google a thing? I mean, does it happen often other than, when, your account has been maliciously hacked? I didn't know that.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    There is a large number of threads here on HN about it.
tzs 5y ago
> Less exposure to manipulative ads, and lower finesse of manipulation due to less data about you. I'm no longer convinced that Google actually uses information about you to target ads. I base this on recently watching a lot of YouTube on streaming devices such as my Amazon Fire TV and my Xfinity Flex. On my desktop I have an ad blocker and so usually do not see ads on YouTube but there are no ad blockers on those streaming boxes. I'm logged into my Google account in the YouTube apps on those boxes so Google knows it is me watching and could therefore make use of the full power of their allegedly mighty data-driven personalized ad targeting. I've now seen hundreds of ads and they have yet to show me one that matches my interests or matches products I use and make purchasing decisions for any better than random billboards on the side of the freeway match. For the advertisers paying for those ads it was a complete waste of their money for Google to show me those ads.

bcanzanella 5y ago

What are some alternatives?

gspr 5y ago
The only thing I used my google account for was email. There are many good alternatives – I myself have been happy with mailbox.org for years.
Nextgrid 5y ago
Office 365.
- andrew_ 5y ago
  their web email client continues to be ocular cancer for anyone who isn't already a daily Outlook user.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    I can't stand it nor GMail so I always use a good old local client (Mac Mail or Evolution).
einpoklum 5y ago
Here's one survey of alternatives: https://restoreprivacy.com/google-alternatives/ https://restoreprivacy.com/google-alternatives/ Personally, I use: * DDG for search. * gmx.com as my main email server (not sure it's that great for privacy, ProtonMail is probably better). * OpenStreetMap for maps (caveat: Some info is on Google Maps and not on there) * HereWeGo for car navigation * Thunderbird as my mail client + calendar * I don't publish videos, but otherwise probably PeerTube * IRC and Matrix for group chatting * F-Droid for FOSS mobile apps, Aurora for anonymous access to Google Play Store Not yet de-googlified: * I use an Android phone (albeit Chinese) * Still need a good alternative for Google Translate.
- whyoh 5y ago
  GMX exposes your IP address in email headers.
  - einpoklum 5y ago
    Well, I wasn't expecting it to hide my IP address. By default, the Received headers should show the chain of transmission back to my IP.

tomxor 5y ago

What are the leading recommendations these days? is it still mainly protonmail? I think the features I value most are U2F support and a usable but simple web interface (Gmail's web interface has actually gotten consistency worse over the last decade so I guess that sets a low bar).

grammers 5y ago
U2F support was one of the reasons why I picked Tutanota. It's similar to Proton, but with Proton I really missed U2F and they've promised it for ages...
fullstop 5y ago
I use protonmail as a second account. It works fine, but there are a few quality of life differences compared to gmail. 1. ProtonMail can not search the contents of messages in the web client, unless you enable local indexing. This downloads all of your messages to the client, and performs the search locally. This, of course, must be done from every web client. It makes sense, given that PM can't see the contents of your messages. The Android app can not search the contents of messages. 2. The Android app does not clear notifications if the message is read elsewhere. This can be annoying when you look at your phone and see notifications for 7 unread messages after they've all been read. Proton supports TOTP only, and not U2F/WebAuthn.
rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
I switched from Protonmail to Fastmail (with by own domain) and couldn't be happier. Protonmail locks you in their own clients (on Android at least) and they're shitty (e.g no thread view).

shadowgovt 5y ago

Cons: * While you can Takeout your data, enjoy the process of reshuffling gigabytes of Drive contents, calendar entries, YouTube videos, etc. Into other application systems. * Disconnection from the Cloud makes everything strictly less convenient. "Oh, I'll just throw you a Drive link... Oh wait, I guess I'm going to have to upload it to something else that you may or may not have access to, or email it to you and hope that your email server and my email server agree on what the maximum transfer size is, or I'll upload it to a web server and toss you a password in hope nobody else cracks it while you're getting it because I misconfigured my server." Then, of course, if they need to make changes they'll have to email their copy back to you... Remember the days of report-final-final2-june-version.doc? Enjoy going back to that. * Replacing one set of integrated Google services with a slew of third-party solutions means none of those solutions are expected to work with each other, and while you leave behind the disadvantage that Google could decide your account is terminated and you lose access to everything, you'll be replacing it with a disadvantage that any individual third party provider could pivot or collapse and you lose access to the service they provide. To say nothing of the need to have to track dozens of authentication credentials now, unless you delegate to a third party identification provider (whoops, that's also Google...). And, of course, since they're not funded by the largest advertising network on the planet, at least half those services will charge you money to be less convenient.

einpoklum 5y ago
> enjoy the process of reshuffling If you've uploaded it, there's no sense in taking it down. Google already has it. Just don't log-in to Google accounts and don't take their cookies. > I guess I'm going to have to upload it to something else that you may or may not have access to, If you looked into alternatives, you would find many don't require any account or login by the receiving party. Example: box.com links . Actually, I'm pretty sure that's the norm. > I'll upload it to a web server and toss you a password Look, you've been stuck in the Google bubble for too long. The weather is just fine outside.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  > If you've uploaded it, there's no sense in taking it down. Google already has it. Just don't log-in to Google accounts and don't take their cookies. I meant in terms of making it convenient to use that data in some other environment when one moves away from Google. My Drive contents, for example, will come down in doc formats that may or may not be immediately compatible with whatever I want to move to (be it someone else's cloud or locally-running desktop editors). And it'll all have to be re-indexed for search purposes (unless I just decide "being able to search all my documents regardless of their format" is one of those Drive features I no longer care about). Photos as well... I can pull my photos down, but I'm going to leave behind those "Find all pictures of a cat" or "Find all pictures of my mom" features that Google Photos provide.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

self host your email. mailinabox makes it less than half an hour job. plus occasional updates every few months, nothing big. the upside is, you get to control your emails, your server. the bad thing is, if you get a bad IP (which you can have replaced for example at the start from vps provider) or you do something fishy with your email like spam gmail/yahoo/outlook users, you would be banned but other than that it really isn't all that bad. sure i have to "sometimes" ask people to check spam and set it as not spam but that is becoming more and more remote. i do understand the appeal of protonmail and other privacy centric emails but you can do that yourself if you put in the elbow grease. plus you get to learn about a lot of stuff and its a fun exercise. you also do not have to pay through your nose if you want more features/more storage and stuff (well the storage/server depends on your vps in toto but still)

mnau 5y ago

You are missing key benefit: when Google locks you out of your account, you don't lose access to significant part of your digital life (your email, all these sign with google ect). Google is using law of algorithm, not a rule of law. Trying to get to a person is nearly impossible.

einpoklum 5y ago
> when Google locks you out of your account Is lock-out on Google a thing? I mean, does it happen often other than, when, your account has been maliciously hacked? I didn't know that.
- fsflover 5y ago
  There is a large number of threads here on HN about it.

tzs 5y ago

> Less exposure to manipulative ads, and lower finesse of manipulation due to less data about you. I'm no longer convinced that Google actually uses information about you to target ads. I base this on recently watching a lot of YouTube on streaming devices such as my Amazon Fire TV and my Xfinity Flex. On my desktop I have an ad blocker and so usually do not see ads on YouTube but there are no ad blockers on those streaming boxes. I'm logged into my Google account in the YouTube apps on those boxes so Google knows it is me watching and could therefore make use of the full power of their allegedly mighty data-driven personalized ad targeting. I've now seen hundreds of ads and they have yet to show me one that matches my interests or matches products I use and make purchasing decisions for any better than random billboards on the side of the freeway match. For the advertisers paying for those ads it was a complete waste of their money for Google to show me those ads.