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Most of the expense on these e-ink tablets comes from the huge cost of that screen, so unless Huawei is willing to subsidize this product and monetize your priv

Most of the expense on these e-ink tablets comes from the huge cost of that screen, so unless Huawei is willing to subsidize this product and monetize your private data instead, I doubt this will be significantly cheaper than the competition. Regardless of price though, I'm not willing to out my private data on Huawei devices.

CommanderData 5y ago
Are there no other companies apart from e-ink?
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  There is no "other company". E-ink owns the parents, the fabs and the secret sauce to profitably producing quality e-ink film in good yelds. Even without the parents, building fabs and the film profitably without their secret sauce would be impossible. It's kind of like the early days of OLED when Samsung was the only one who could fab the tech profitably.
  - criddell 5y ago
    There are other companies now. Plastic Logic and OED are two I know of.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      I checked them out and as far as I could tell, both are making displays based on E-ink's film. E-ink is also a major shareholder of Plastic Logic. As I was saying, E-ink is the only game in town making the film. All the others are making displays based on it.
      - robinsoh 5y ago
        > both are making displays based on E-ink's film Jesus H Christ. Sigh... Just have a google again on OED and at least read the first page of their website properly. It is clear to me the level of confidence in your claims corresponds inversely with the level of accuracy of the facts.
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        You really have no idea what you're talking about. Please read E-ink's website before spreading more disinformation.
        robinsoh 5y ago
        You claimed OED buys E-Ink films. Please prove that with some evidence. Go ahead and google your heart out. You don't work in the display industry which is why you don't know the well known fact that OED is a competitor of E-Ink. They both produce electrophoretic films. What you said is literally the equivalent of saying Coca Cola buys its secret syrup from Pepsi. It is so ridiculous. And yet HN is filled with your level of comments on electrophoretics.
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    > E-ink owns the parents, the fabs and the secret sauce to profitably producing quality e-ink film in good yelds. fabs? Jesus H Christ. Based on just that one sentence, I can guarantee you have 0 experience and 0 direct knowledge of the display industry. Your statement is the equivalent to saying "Microsoft owns the parents (sp), the fabs and the secret sauce to profitably producing quality operating systems in good yelds (sp).
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Would be nice if you also had an argument with your statement and not just mockery, to prove me wrong.
      - robinsoh 5y ago
        > Would be nice if you also had an argument with your statement and not just mockery, to prove me wrong. So you make a massive unsubstantiated claim and I have to prove you wrong? I see the way your logic works. Lets see. You've made the claim that "E-ink owns the parents, the fabs and the secret sauce to profitably producing quality e-ink film in good yelds.". So let me ask a simple question. Since you say E-ink owns all the fabs, can you show me the location of even one E-ink fab? Here's a hint for the answer. E-Ink is a fabless company. That may confuse you so lets make it clearer. It means they don't have ANY fabs. In fact, I don't even know of even one electrophoretic material producer who has a fab. Would you like to try again and provide a more accurate statement that reflects your level of ACTUAL knowledge of the display industry?
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        Mate, you're going completely off the rails and I'm not sure if you're actively trolling or are misinformed and in denial. E-ink is a manufacturer of the E-ink pigment particles and the EPD film that's then sold to various display manufacturers where it gets sandwiched between glass, an ITO top electrode and a TFT bottom layer connected to a CoG (chip on glass), basically like any other LCD TFT display but instead of liquid crystal you have the famous patented E-ink pigment. Those EPD display manufacturers all depend on buying the e-ink film manufactured by E-ink, at their fab in ... drum-roll ... Taiwan (big surprise). None of these EPD display company could make displays by themselves without the film they buy from E-ink. Just read their website [1] and article [2] before spewing more nonsense [1] "E Ink manufacturers a number of EPD films, with different attributes depending on application needs" [1] https://www.eink.com/e-ink-film.html https://www.eink.com/e-ink-film.html [2] " As part of E Ink’s manufacturing process, microcapsules of ink coat plastic film. The film is then dried, inspected, rerolled, and sent on for further processing." [2] https://spectrum.ieee.org/how-e-ink-developed-full-color-epaper https://spectrum.ieee.org/how-e-ink-developed-full-color-epa...
- goosedragons 5y ago
  Not really. I'm pretty sure e-ink tech is still patented. There are some similar options like DES used in the maybe vaporware Reinkstone.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
not to sound cynical but you are willing to draw the line with an american company, say google but not an openly chinese company like huawei. cool. what about all the chinese people then? why would they want to use a google device over a huawei device? shouldnt the discussion be about no company being able to harvest data in the first place, then we wouldnt be having this discussion about nationalities of the overlords
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  You're making a lot of claims about me and about Chinese people, which are not true, based on stuff you made up.
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    made up what? i am not in the US or china and i already know xiaomi and google is harvesting data and selling ads as a form of extra revenue and they even make that as a selling point (ads help us subsidize cost of product) and other non-sense. does it matter that now huawei is doing the same? if i, as a user is having no issues with xiaomi or google or facebook harvesting and selling data to the highest bidder, how is huawei any "more" wrong or bad?
- Ancapistani 5y ago
  For context, I own a Huawei Matebook D and multiple "smart" devices by Apple and Samsung. I'm hesitant to buy a Huawei device because of issues with support and build quality. My Matebook D is down at the moment due to an issue with the USB-C port, which also supplies power. I've owned many devices at this point that use USB-C, and the Huawei is the only one that has ever failed for this reason. To be fair I can't 100% lay the blame on "poor build quality", as my kids were the primary users and my youngest is hell on cables. What I can say is that getting parts or support for it seems basically impossible. Understanding that that's because of the US government doesn't make it better. I'm hoping I'll be able to reflow the jack on the motherboard and get it to work again, but if not, I'll end up having to source a pulled motherboard from eBay - there's no other way for me to get parts, and as far as I can tell, no way for me to send it to the manufacturer for repair, even on my dime. Between Apple, Samsung, and Google... My experience with Samsung devices tells me that longevity isn't their strong suit. I'll never buy another Samsung TV again, and am very unlikely to buy another Samsung appliance. I might be willing to buy a phone or laptop, but only if there is adequate insurance or a service plan included in the price. I don't trust Google. I try to keep as much of my data out of their hands as possible. I know that's a losing proposition - both because it may actually be impossible and because I'm not willing or able to completely cut Google services out of my life. I _really_ don't want an Android device if I can help it. I don't exactly trust Apple, either, but at least it seems like they have a slightly more conservative corporate policy when it comes to sharing the data they've collected on my identity and usage. They're known to push back against "mass" warrants, and I've not seen anything that would lead me to believe that they have or plan to sell those data to a third party. They collect it, archive it, and use it for their own purposes, though. I wouldn't call that "good", but it's better than the alternatives.

CommanderData 5y ago

Are there no other companies apart from e-ink?

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
There is no "other company". E-ink owns the parents, the fabs and the secret sauce to profitably producing quality e-ink film in good yelds. Even without the parents, building fabs and the film profitably without their secret sauce would be impossible. It's kind of like the early days of OLED when Samsung was the only one who could fab the tech profitably.
- criddell 5y ago
  There are other companies now. Plastic Logic and OED are two I know of.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    I checked them out and as far as I could tell, both are making displays based on E-ink's film. E-ink is also a major shareholder of Plastic Logic. As I was saying, E-ink is the only game in town making the film. All the others are making displays based on it.
    - robinsoh 5y ago
      > both are making displays based on E-ink's film Jesus H Christ. Sigh... Just have a google again on OED and at least read the first page of their website properly. It is clear to me the level of confidence in your claims corresponds inversely with the level of accuracy of the facts.
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        You really have no idea what you're talking about. Please read E-ink's website before spreading more disinformation.
        robinsoh 5y ago
        You claimed OED buys E-Ink films. Please prove that with some evidence. Go ahead and google your heart out. You don't work in the display industry which is why you don't know the well known fact that OED is a competitor of E-Ink. They both produce electrophoretic films. What you said is literally the equivalent of saying Coca Cola buys its secret syrup from Pepsi. It is so ridiculous. And yet HN is filled with your level of comments on electrophoretics.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  > E-ink owns the parents, the fabs and the secret sauce to profitably producing quality e-ink film in good yelds. fabs? Jesus H Christ. Based on just that one sentence, I can guarantee you have 0 experience and 0 direct knowledge of the display industry. Your statement is the equivalent to saying "Microsoft owns the parents (sp), the fabs and the secret sauce to profitably producing quality operating systems in good yelds (sp).
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Would be nice if you also had an argument with your statement and not just mockery, to prove me wrong.
    - robinsoh 5y ago
      > Would be nice if you also had an argument with your statement and not just mockery, to prove me wrong. So you make a massive unsubstantiated claim and I have to prove you wrong? I see the way your logic works. Lets see. You've made the claim that "E-ink owns the parents, the fabs and the secret sauce to profitably producing quality e-ink film in good yelds.". So let me ask a simple question. Since you say E-ink owns all the fabs, can you show me the location of even one E-ink fab? Here's a hint for the answer. E-Ink is a fabless company. That may confuse you so lets make it clearer. It means they don't have ANY fabs. In fact, I don't even know of even one electrophoretic material producer who has a fab. Would you like to try again and provide a more accurate statement that reflects your level of ACTUAL knowledge of the display industry?
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        Mate, you're going completely off the rails and I'm not sure if you're actively trolling or are misinformed and in denial. E-ink is a manufacturer of the E-ink pigment particles and the EPD film that's then sold to various display manufacturers where it gets sandwiched between glass, an ITO top electrode and a TFT bottom layer connected to a CoG (chip on glass), basically like any other LCD TFT display but instead of liquid crystal you have the famous patented E-ink pigment. Those EPD display manufacturers all depend on buying the e-ink film manufactured by E-ink, at their fab in ... drum-roll ... Taiwan (big surprise). None of these EPD display company could make displays by themselves without the film they buy from E-ink. Just read their website [1] and article [2] before spewing more nonsense [1] "E Ink manufacturers a number of EPD films, with different attributes depending on application needs" [1] https://www.eink.com/e-ink-film.html https://www.eink.com/e-ink-film.html [2] " As part of E Ink’s manufacturing process, microcapsules of ink coat plastic film. The film is then dried, inspected, rerolled, and sent on for further processing." [2] https://spectrum.ieee.org/how-e-ink-developed-full-color-epaper https://spectrum.ieee.org/how-e-ink-developed-full-color-epa...
goosedragons 5y ago
Not really. I'm pretty sure e-ink tech is still patented. There are some similar options like DES used in the maybe vaporware Reinkstone.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

not to sound cynical but you are willing to draw the line with an american company, say google but not an openly chinese company like huawei. cool. what about all the chinese people then? why would they want to use a google device over a huawei device? shouldnt the discussion be about no company being able to harvest data in the first place, then we wouldnt be having this discussion about nationalities of the overlords

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
You're making a lot of claims about me and about Chinese people, which are not true, based on stuff you made up.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  made up what? i am not in the US or china and i already know xiaomi and google is harvesting data and selling ads as a form of extra revenue and they even make that as a selling point (ads help us subsidize cost of product) and other non-sense. does it matter that now huawei is doing the same? if i, as a user is having no issues with xiaomi or google or facebook harvesting and selling data to the highest bidder, how is huawei any "more" wrong or bad?
Ancapistani 5y ago
For context, I own a Huawei Matebook D and multiple "smart" devices by Apple and Samsung. I'm hesitant to buy a Huawei device because of issues with support and build quality. My Matebook D is down at the moment due to an issue with the USB-C port, which also supplies power. I've owned many devices at this point that use USB-C, and the Huawei is the only one that has ever failed for this reason. To be fair I can't 100% lay the blame on "poor build quality", as my kids were the primary users and my youngest is hell on cables. What I can say is that getting parts or support for it seems basically impossible. Understanding that that's because of the US government doesn't make it better. I'm hoping I'll be able to reflow the jack on the motherboard and get it to work again, but if not, I'll end up having to source a pulled motherboard from eBay - there's no other way for me to get parts, and as far as I can tell, no way for me to send it to the manufacturer for repair, even on my dime. Between Apple, Samsung, and Google... My experience with Samsung devices tells me that longevity isn't their strong suit. I'll never buy another Samsung TV again, and am very unlikely to buy another Samsung appliance. I might be willing to buy a phone or laptop, but only if there is adequate insurance or a service plan included in the price. I don't trust Google. I try to keep as much of my data out of their hands as possible. I know that's a losing proposition - both because it may actually be impossible and because I'm not willing or able to completely cut Google services out of my life. I _really_ don't want an Android device if I can help it. I don't exactly trust Apple, either, but at least it seems like they have a slightly more conservative corporate policy when it comes to sharing the data they've collected on my identity and usage. They're known to push back against "mass" warrants, and I've not seen anything that would lead me to believe that they have or plan to sell those data to a third party. They collect it, archive it, and use it for their own purposes, though. I wouldn't call that "good", but it's better than the alternatives.