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We also have to understand Russia's grievances instead of seeing it in terms of an evil side attacking the good side because it's not that simple. The US would

We also have to understand Russia's grievances instead of seeing it in terms of an evil side attacking the good side because it's not that simple. The US would hardly be best pleased if Mexico started receiving arms from China and North Korea right at its border.

willis936 5y ago
What if Mexico received the arms because the US said they were going to topple Mexico's government? Russia is not justified, which is why there has been such unification in the West and silence from Russia's powerful allies. Putin made a mistake.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  I don’t think anyone is saying that Russia is justified, more that if we want a solution here we have to understand their motivations.
  - throwawayffffas 5y ago
    True, but understanding their motivations goes further than taking their narrative at face value. The Russian narrative swings from fear of future deployments of American missiles in Ukraine, as if nuclear ballistic submarines can't show up in the Bering sea in a matter of days. And de-nazifaction as if the Kremlin regime is a pillar of freedom and democracy. Both arguments are rather flimsy at best. It looks to me the main issue is Ukraine's democracy, it looks like the Kremlin cannot tolerate bordering a democracy not run by some kind of autocratic vassal. It kind of make sense since there is a large Russian/Russian-speaking community in Ukraine. What the Kremlin can't tolerate is a neighbor with greener grass on their side of the fence. Because if the Russian people witnessed a blooming economy and growth in Ukraine after the popular deposition of their then Russian-adjacent president, they might get ideas. So days after the event Russia invaded crimea and labeled the Ukrainian government Nazis. Simply because the Russian people had to see that popular revolutions only lead to misery.
CRConrad 5y ago
dorgo 5y ago
And Russia has to understand europe's grievances. You can't invade europe and hope it won't react accordingly.

willis936 5y ago

What if Mexico received the arms because the US said they were going to topple Mexico's government? Russia is not justified, which is why there has been such unification in the West and silence from Russia's powerful allies. Putin made a mistake.

ceilingcorner 5y ago
I don’t think anyone is saying that Russia is justified, more that if we want a solution here we have to understand their motivations.
- throwawayffffas 5y ago
  True, but understanding their motivations goes further than taking their narrative at face value. The Russian narrative swings from fear of future deployments of American missiles in Ukraine, as if nuclear ballistic submarines can't show up in the Bering sea in a matter of days. And de-nazifaction as if the Kremlin regime is a pillar of freedom and democracy. Both arguments are rather flimsy at best. It looks to me the main issue is Ukraine's democracy, it looks like the Kremlin cannot tolerate bordering a democracy not run by some kind of autocratic vassal. It kind of make sense since there is a large Russian/Russian-speaking community in Ukraine. What the Kremlin can't tolerate is a neighbor with greener grass on their side of the fence. Because if the Russian people witnessed a blooming economy and growth in Ukraine after the popular deposition of their then Russian-adjacent president, they might get ideas. So days after the event Russia invaded crimea and labeled the Ukrainian government Nazis. Simply because the Russian people had to see that popular revolutions only lead to misery.

CRConrad 5y ago

dorgo 5y ago

And Russia has to understand europe's grievances. You can't invade europe and hope it won't react accordingly.