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Belarus went pro Russian, so Kyiv is shelled instead of Minsk. I do not see the improvement. Blood has been spilled earning freedom from tyrany ever since peo

Belarus went pro Russian, so Kyiv is shelled instead of Minsk. I do not see the improvement. Blood has been spilled earning freedom from tyrany ever since people have existed. Because it was worth it. Because it was cheaper than continuing to pay the price in blood of tolerating tyrany. Blood will continue to be spilled in the name of freedom for as long as people continue to tyranize each other, because it will continue to, at some point, be worth it. It might be cheaper over the long run to keep freedom than to constantly abandon it - and then only later, when it is much more difficult to effect change, to attempt to reclaim it. But even that may not be an option, for many are too stubborn or ignorant to learn from the mistakes of history or others - no, they must make the mistake themselves, and leave it to their children to pay the price.

pydry 5y ago
If this were about freedom and democracy NATO would be toppling the Saudi Arabian Monarchy not helping it invade Yemen. If it were about democracy NATO would respect the results of the crimean referendum (if pew research says thats what 90% of crimeans want and it does im inclined to believe them). We are not the good guys bringing peace, freedom and democracy to the world. We are an empire threatening another empire along its most exposed border at the exact point where it was almost defeated by the Nazis. Belief that our leaders are the bringers of peace, freedom and democracy is going to end very, very badly. Our leaders want power.
- MaulingMonkey 5y ago
  The west's intentions are certainly far from pure. But you won't tell me with a straight face that Putin's intentions here are purer - or that he comes in peace, bringing freedom or democracy.
- chupy 5y ago
  Probably if you apply the same polls some folks in Texas they would also want to become independent from the US.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > thats what 90% of crimeans want Sure. For some carefully chosen definition of "Crimeans". Was that poll held before (which I doubt) or after (like the infamous "referendum") Russia had invaded, transported out hundreds of thousands of Crimean Tartars, and shipped in as many Russian national(ist)s to replace them? Listen, man: I suppose it's possible that you somehow are neither intentionally peddling Putin's propaganda, nor a dimwitted dupe who has hook-line-and-sinker fallen for it. But as you must have noticed by now, quite a lot of us here think you come off very much as if you belong to at least one of those categories. Maybe you ought to have a good long think about why that is, and whether perhaps it's you who should open your eyes and rethink your values?

pydry 5y ago

If this were about freedom and democracy NATO would be toppling the Saudi Arabian Monarchy not helping it invade Yemen. If it were about democracy NATO would respect the results of the crimean referendum (if pew research says thats what 90% of crimeans want and it does im inclined to believe them). We are not the good guys bringing peace, freedom and democracy to the world. We are an empire threatening another empire along its most exposed border at the exact point where it was almost defeated by the Nazis. Belief that our leaders are the bringers of peace, freedom and democracy is going to end very, very badly. Our leaders want power.

MaulingMonkey 5y ago
The west's intentions are certainly far from pure. But you won't tell me with a straight face that Putin's intentions here are purer - or that he comes in peace, bringing freedom or democracy.
chupy 5y ago
Probably if you apply the same polls some folks in Texas they would also want to become independent from the US.
CRConrad 5y ago
> thats what 90% of crimeans want Sure. For some carefully chosen definition of "Crimeans". Was that poll held before (which I doubt) or after (like the infamous "referendum") Russia had invaded, transported out hundreds of thousands of Crimean Tartars, and shipped in as many Russian national(ist)s to replace them? Listen, man: I suppose it's possible that you somehow are neither intentionally peddling Putin's propaganda, nor a dimwitted dupe who has hook-line-and-sinker fallen for it. But as you must have noticed by now, quite a lot of us here think you come off very much as if you belong to at least one of those categories. Maybe you ought to have a good long think about why that is, and whether perhaps it's you who should open your eyes and rethink your values?