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From the list of Putin's demands, what should the West has conceded on??
by ysamjo 5y ago
From the list of Putin's demands, what should the West has conceded on??
- necovek 5y agoNot necessarily Putin's demands, but there's talk of Russia asking to join NATO way-back-when: not sure if those are trustworthy, but I am pretty confident Russia would have no fear of NATO if it was not sent off, and was instead part of it. Also, recognizing independence for Russian-controlled areas of Ukraine would have helped with the current situation too.
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y agoYeah. I've seen a decent article recently (it's in Russian though) about Russia/NATO talks in the 90s. The felling from 'our' side seems to go like this: we tried to get into NATO or at least prevent them from moving close to our borders, but the NATO paper pushers were afraid of losing their jobs and knocked up a threat when there were none. https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/02/02/natokatstvo https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/02/02/natokatstvo Edit: actually, I think the google translate version is plenty readable. https://novayagazeta-ru.translate.goog/articles/2022/02/02/natokatstvo?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://novayagazeta-ru.translate.goog/articles/2022/02/02/n... This is of the main guys who did the talking in the 90s, so you might want to have a gander at it.
- roca 5y ago"Russia has no fear of NATO" => "Putin takes Baltic states".
- necovek 5y agoWell, Russia being part of NATO and what the consequences are... I guess we'll never know. What would happen if NATO seriously offered to take both Ukraine and Russia as members TODAY?
- rmind 5y agoNATO would have become a dysfunctional organization. It is not about the Russian fear of NATO. Russian political system cannot get over its loss of an empire, despite us living in the XXI century. It's entirely different root of the problem..
- roca 5y agoEastern and Western Europe would have been crazy to gamble everything on the hope that admitting Russia to NATO somehow neutralizes Russia, not NATO.
- indymike 5y agoNATO exists because of Russia/USSR's bad behavior.
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Not necessarily Putin's demands, but there's talk of Russia asking to join NATO way-back-when Putin wanted to skip the readiness steps applied to aspiring members and just be jumped in. Readiness is quite important, because NATO doesn't work by voting but consensus/unanimity. > but I am pretty confident Russia would have no fear of NATO if it was not sent off They weren't sent off, they were admitted to the Partnership for Peace (the onboarding path for membership) before Putin even came into office, and never formally pursued anything farther, Putin specifically indicating that he found applying the accession process used for aspiring members to Russia rather than a direct invitation for full membership improper. > Also, recognizing independence for Russian-controlled areas of Ukraine would have helped with the current situation too. Would it? How? Would it stopped Putin from escalating attacks from those areas and then claiming that attacks on them, combined with the historical “fact” that Ukraine was an unjustly created entity ripped from Russian territory, justified the invasion of the rest? How does that work?
- ysamjo 5y ago> recognizing independence for Russian-controlled areas of Ukraine would have helped with the current situation too. So what you're saying is that these states in question don't deserve the right to self-sovereignity. The people in the independent states wanted in NATO and not the other way around.