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Slightly OT: I’m always amused coming to discussions like this one, where people are (basically) complaining about the Virtual DOM and its implications. It’s ba

by fuzzy2 5y ago

Slightly OT: I’m always amused coming to discussions like this one, where people are (basically) complaining about the Virtual DOM and its implications. It’s bad for performance at scale, updates aren’t minimal. And other stuff: SFC are hard to wrap your head around, I don’t want to write explicitly reactive code and so on. Some framework solves this by looking (somewhat) like React but in the end doing something entirely different. May I interest you in Angular? It certainly isn’t cool and I really do hate it. But especially since the AoT compiler has been implemented, performance is quite good. There’s templates, which some folks seem to love. Angular keeps in-memory references to all dynamic elements in a template so they can be updated with high efficiency. It has class components. It has a lifecycle method that is called OnInit. So maybe give it a whirl.

awr 5y ago
I've been using Angular in production for 5+ years. There was a year where things were confusing, state updating all over the place, and general frustration. But once I grokked pure components, and embraced "data down, actions up", it all clicked and just made sense [0]. I find React obtuse in comparison. Angular front-end, Nestjs backend has fast become my stack of choice. It greatly minimises context switching by having such similar paradigms across frontend and backend. [0] - blog series I wrote detailing Angular best practices that I learnt along the way: https://link.medium.com/ncYgWgnK2nb https://link.medium.com/ncYgWgnK2nb
ramoz 5y ago
The whole "I hate angular" is a bit old at this point. The latest versions are really quite simple/powerful. We act like it's still 2015 and we're jumping from angularjs 1.x to React. The jump was nice, yet turns out production-grade engineering in React was not so nice.
- fuzzy2 5y ago
  I don’t like the separation between template and code, I don’t like the developer experience (slow and often malfunctioning VS Code extensions and slow builds, bad in-browser debug helpers), I don’t like how creating “ad-hoc” components is basically impossible. I think Zone.js is insane. I know Angular very well. That’s why I’m confident I can create high-performance applications using Angular. I firmly believe Angular has far too many pitfalls for inexperienced developers. So yeah, I hate Angular.
  - ramoz 5y ago
    `Angular Language Service` is the only domain specific extension I've ever needed and its never been an issue. The template separation, as well as (s)css, I like organizationally compared to the chaos you end up in with large jsx-styled applications.
  - mst 5y ago
    If you can't hate on your major dependencies confidently and at length, you probably haven't used them long enough yet. I generally spend much of my day writing perl. It absolutely works for me, but every time I encounter somebody who wants to -attack- perl I find myself disappointed by how short their list of reasons to hate it is compared to my own. (one of the most complicated JS codebases I work with on a regular basis is in angular, and the learning curve is a fucking cliff but yeah, once you get to the top, I agree with everything you've said about it)

by fuzzy2 5y ago

awr 5y ago

I've been using Angular in production for 5+ years. There was a year where things were confusing, state updating all over the place, and general frustration. But once I grokked pure components, and embraced "data down, actions up", it all clicked and just made sense [0]. I find React obtuse in comparison. Angular front-end, Nestjs backend has fast become my stack of choice. It greatly minimises context switching by having such similar paradigms across frontend and backend. [0] - blog series I wrote detailing Angular best practices that I learnt along the way: https://link.medium.com/ncYgWgnK2nb https://link.medium.com/ncYgWgnK2nb

ramoz 5y ago

The whole "I hate angular" is a bit old at this point. The latest versions are really quite simple/powerful. We act like it's still 2015 and we're jumping from angularjs 1.x to React. The jump was nice, yet turns out production-grade engineering in React was not so nice.

fuzzy2 5y ago
I don’t like the separation between template and code, I don’t like the developer experience (slow and often malfunctioning VS Code extensions and slow builds, bad in-browser debug helpers), I don’t like how creating “ad-hoc” components is basically impossible. I think Zone.js is insane. I know Angular very well. That’s why I’m confident I can create high-performance applications using Angular. I firmly believe Angular has far too many pitfalls for inexperienced developers. So yeah, I hate Angular.
- ramoz 5y ago
  `Angular Language Service` is the only domain specific extension I've ever needed and its never been an issue. The template separation, as well as (s)css, I like organizationally compared to the chaos you end up in with large jsx-styled applications.
- mst 5y ago
  If you can't hate on your major dependencies confidently and at length, you probably haven't used them long enough yet. I generally spend much of my day writing perl. It absolutely works for me, but every time I encounter somebody who wants to -attack- perl I find myself disappointed by how short their list of reasons to hate it is compared to my own. (one of the most complicated JS codebases I work with on a regular basis is in angular, and the learning curve is a fucking cliff but yeah, once you get to the top, I agree with everything you've said about it)