3 ms·

I agree with almost everything but Russia GDP is a trillion less than the italian one

mike_d 5y ago
Measuring Russia by GDP is like measuring a bank robber by their tax return. They have a shit ton of dark money that isn't calculated as part of GDP. Their economy is also in much better shape even with the smaller official calculations, having external debt equal to 38% of GDP compared to 102% for the US.
- lnxg33k1 5y ago
  I mean are you really saying that italian mafia declares everything? Let's do mafias GDP then, let's see who has it bigger (As italian, neapolitan)
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    Isn't crime already accounted for in the Italian GDP? https://qz.com/212962/drugs-prostitution-and-smuggling-italys-gdp-is-about-to-get-much-bigger/ https://qz.com/212962/drugs-prostitution-and-smuggling-italy...
    - lnxg33k1 5y ago
      Ah alright I guess that's why we're still in G8 :D
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  Who cares about external debt when they are not going to pay it off?
  - lnxg33k1 5y ago
    You think so? I am not an expert but afaik it's not that Russia does a lot of things it needs internally and not paying debts doesn't really seem viable if you want to get a currency with which you can pay your procurements?
berdario 5y ago
That's fair in the context of businesses, but since we're also talking about a war context: I've seen people point out that when discussing the conflict, it makes more sense to use PPP adjusted GDP. The rationale is that for a lot of stuff needed for state security, the production is done internally, and thus the currency exchange rates don't matter as much. (This is particularly true for Russia, since they build a lot of their weapons, compared with other european countries which buy weapons from the US) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) Russia is ahead of all European countries, except Germany. I hope there will be a cease fire soon, enough people suffered already...
- donw 5y ago
  Exactly this. Anecdotally: Russian outdoor equipment has gotten seriously acceptable in the past few years, and that's not a bad proxy for their military gear. Laugh all you want, but ten years ago, I wouldn't have trusted Ivan to build a tent that didn't (a) weigh several tons; and (b) fall over in a light breeze. Looking at the gear they're fielding, they're maybe a generation behind NATO on everything except NVOs (the US is 2-3 generations ahead there), and the Russian military has massively more inland combat experience than anybody else in Europe save the French, and likely as much UW/FID experience as the US. Difficult to assess where Russia lies in terms of training and tactics given all the noise, but they appear to be far more competent than I expected. People are seriously underestimating what Russia can bring to the table, sort of like how folks laughed at the strides made by Chinese manufacturers.

Measuring Russia by GDP is like measuring a bank robber by their tax return. They have a shit ton of dark money that isn't calculated as part of GDP. Their economy is also in much better shape even with the smaller official calculations, having external debt equal to 38% of GDP compared to 102% for the US.

lnxg33k1 5y ago
I mean are you really saying that italian mafia declares everything? Let's do mafias GDP then, let's see who has it bigger (As italian, neapolitan)
- Hamuko 5y ago
  Isn't crime already accounted for in the Italian GDP? https://qz.com/212962/drugs-prostitution-and-smuggling-italys-gdp-is-about-to-get-much-bigger/ https://qz.com/212962/drugs-prostitution-and-smuggling-italy...
  - lnxg33k1 5y ago
    Ah alright I guess that's why we're still in G8 :D
KptMarchewa 5y ago
Who cares about external debt when they are not going to pay it off?
- lnxg33k1 5y ago
  You think so? I am not an expert but afaik it's not that Russia does a lot of things it needs internally and not paying debts doesn't really seem viable if you want to get a currency with which you can pay your procurements?

berdario 5y ago

That's fair in the context of businesses, but since we're also talking about a war context: I've seen people point out that when discussing the conflict, it makes more sense to use PPP adjusted GDP. The rationale is that for a lot of stuff needed for state security, the production is done internally, and thus the currency exchange rates don't matter as much. (This is particularly true for Russia, since they build a lot of their weapons, compared with other european countries which buy weapons from the US) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) Russia is ahead of all European countries, except Germany. I hope there will be a cease fire soon, enough people suffered already...

donw 5y ago
Exactly this. Anecdotally: Russian outdoor equipment has gotten seriously acceptable in the past few years, and that's not a bad proxy for their military gear. Laugh all you want, but ten years ago, I wouldn't have trusted Ivan to build a tent that didn't (a) weigh several tons; and (b) fall over in a light breeze. Looking at the gear they're fielding, they're maybe a generation behind NATO on everything except NVOs (the US is 2-3 generations ahead there), and the Russian military has massively more inland combat experience than anybody else in Europe save the French, and likely as much UW/FID experience as the US. Difficult to assess where Russia lies in terms of training and tactics given all the noise, but they appear to be far more competent than I expected. People are seriously underestimating what Russia can bring to the table, sort of like how folks laughed at the strides made by Chinese manufacturers.