5 ms·
SWIFT is a Belgian corporation that is not tied to a specific currency. Kicking them out of SWIFT has nothing to do with USD hegimony. China and Russia do hav
by abofh 5y ago
SWIFT is a Belgian corporation that is not tied to a specific currency. Kicking them out of SWIFT has nothing to do with USD hegimony. China and Russia do have a competing system, it's used by China and Russia.
Moreover, Russias currency and market have been in a downfall for a month, not a week - that its actions _have_ long term consequences is exactly the point.
Now, please remember, there's a whole planet out there, and Russia has a GDP that equals _Italy_ or Benelux - it's just, in the grand scheme of things, not important enough to justify its repeated demands to be able to invade soverign nations without consequences.
Russia is still free to settle its debts through the thing it has: physical goods. SWIFT is a messaging system - not a payment system - they're still free to use faxes and carrier pigeons. The world need not let you participate in modern conveniences if you're just a bully.
- lnxg33k1 5y agoI agree with almost everything but Russia GDP is a trillion less than the italian one
- mike_d 5y agoMeasuring Russia by GDP is like measuring a bank robber by their tax return. They have a shit ton of dark money that isn't calculated as part of GDP. Their economy is also in much better shape even with the smaller official calculations, having external debt equal to 38% of GDP compared to 102% for the US.
- lnxg33k1 5y agoI mean are you really saying that italian mafia declares everything? Let's do mafias GDP then, let's see who has it bigger (As italian, neapolitan)
- KptMarchewa 5y agoWho cares about external debt when they are not going to pay it off?
- lnxg33k1 5y agoYou think so? I am not an expert but afaik it's not that Russia does a lot of things it needs internally and not paying debts doesn't really seem viable if you want to get a currency with which you can pay your procurements?
- berdario 5y agoThat's fair in the context of businesses, but since we're also talking about a war context: I've seen people point out that when discussing the conflict, it makes more sense to use PPP adjusted GDP. The rationale is that for a lot of stuff needed for state security, the production is done internally, and thus the currency exchange rates don't matter as much. (This is particularly true for Russia, since they build a lot of their weapons, compared with other european countries which buy weapons from the US) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) Russia is ahead of all European countries, except Germany. I hope there will be a cease fire soon, enough people suffered already...
- donw 5y agoExactly this. Anecdotally: Russian outdoor equipment has gotten seriously acceptable in the past few years, and that's not a bad proxy for their military gear. Laugh all you want, but ten years ago, I wouldn't have trusted Ivan to build a tent that didn't (a) weigh several tons; and (b) fall over in a light breeze. Looking at the gear they're fielding, they're maybe a generation behind NATO on everything except NVOs (the US is 2-3 generations ahead there), and the Russian military has massively more inland combat experience than anybody else in Europe save the French, and likely as much UW/FID experience as the US. Difficult to assess where Russia lies in terms of training and tactics given all the noise, but they appear to be far more competent than I expected. People are seriously underestimating what Russia can bring to the table, sort of like how folks laughed at the strides made by Chinese manufacturers.
- dukeofdoom 5y agoComparing Army sizes might the more relevant comparison going forward.
- abofh 5y agoIn a different context, for sure, but this was about SWIFT and finance. Even still, comparing army sizes isn't that useful either -- number of raw bodies only tells a fractional story; Where they're fighting makes a huge difference (home turf advantage), morale, motivation, equipment, training, non-human resources. Numbers are useful when they're qualitatively comparable, but in this context, I'm not sure what number of troops should say you're allowed to bank wherever you want.
- Hamuko 5y ago>China and Russia do have a competing system, it's used by China and Russia. Don't both of them have competing SWIFT systems that don't talk to each other?
- modo_mario 5y ago>SWIFT is a Belgian corporation that is not tied to a specific currency. Kicking them out of SWIFT has nothing to do with USD hegimony. Not in this case given that Belgium and the rest of Europe also wants it. ...but I distinctly remember us not wanting to ban Iran from SWIFT and bowing to US pressure on the matter