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The US government has really shaken my trust in services like these (which I guess is their ultimate goal). With the risk that these "secure devices" type selle

The US government has really shaken my trust in services like these (which I guess is their ultimate goal). With the risk that these "secure devices" type sellers are fronts I think it's best practice for anyone wanting a de-googeled device to just buy one of these phones in store with cash and then load the custom OS themselves, it requires the level of technical knowledge you'd need to even know you'd want something like this in the first place so anyone that wants it can easily do it. Also I find it ironic that this website is full of Google requests, we've got YouTube, google translate, gstatic content, google recaptcha, googleapis, and google fonts requests all just on the landing page alone. Doesn't help that it's sending data to Facebook either.

yaomtc 5y ago
It's even easier these days with the web installer that GrapheneOS uses. https://grapheneos.org/install/web https://grapheneos.org/install/web
BLKNSLVR 5y ago
The frontend seems to be 100% shopify dependent (ie. the page is blank if the shopify domain is blocked), but I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
i67vw3 5y ago
ArcaneOS comes to my mind as a recent example. I always suggest anyone to load the custom ROM themselves or ask someone you know IRL to do it for you. If you think you do not have the expertise to do it, you should ask for help. There is a good chance that you will do something wrong and compeletely brick the phone. Rob Braxman sells degoogled phones on his online store https://brax.me/prod/host.php?f=_store&h=rob&p= https://brax.me/prod/host.php?f=_store&h=rob&p=. Some say he is goverment psyop while some think he is pretty legit https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/imf6vx/how_good_is_braxme/ https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/imf6vx/how_...
- Osiris 5y ago
  He ow can you trust the ArcaneOS releases to not be free from backdoors, etc? Even if you build the image yourself you're still relying on someone else's code. It reminds me of the office space quote, "no one can check all that code. Thumbs up their a$$es."
Terry_Roll 5y ago
So Google is balancing your privacy with their expansion. If something went to court Google could be what keeps you out of court, because unless there is an independent expert, manufacturers tend to become the defacto court expert and most of the time you are probably a tiny little cash cow for them and they like milking you.
fsflover 5y ago
> I think it's best practice for anyone wanting a de-googeled device to just buy one of these phones in store with cash and then load the custom OS themselves The best practice is to abandon locked down Android phones and switch to GNU/Linux phones (Librem 5 and Pinephone).
- bluGill 5y ago
  Long term, but the software isn't quite there, though improving. Worse the radios don't support everything my carrier does. 5g is a must where I live as 4g is being skipped in remote locations that are finally being upgraded from 2g.
  - SahAssar 5y ago
    In that case a fairphone might meet your requiements while still being open to installing alternative OS'es.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      Is fairphone available in the US yet?
      - SahAssar 5y ago
        Doesn't look like it, only continental europe & uk. The bands it supports are in use by Sprint and T-mobile though, so if you import it it will probably work on those carriers.
- GeneralMaximus 5y ago
  Linux phones are entirely impractical for most people. I live in India, and there are several apps I need to use to access government services that only work on iOS and Android. Some services aren't even available over the Web. We're at a point where any successful mobile OS will at least need to support running Android apps, preferably directly from the Play Store. I suspect this is one of the reasons Microsoft is adding Android support to Windows 11. I like the idea of an entirely FOSS phone, but sadly that ship sailed years ago.
em-bee 5y ago
how would you look at e.foundation in comparison? they sell phones with their own OS, so if you trust the OS then i think you can trust their phones.
sharikous 5y ago
The Google threat you can still mitigate or even escape. The US government one you can't. Sorry. As much as I wish I were wrong, the hardware is probably backdoored, so no custom OS will save you. Even if it weren't a phone by design has to communicate with radio towers (backdoored) and even if you get the most secure phone in the world you still have to communicate and pay for some exotic hardware. Guess who will get added to a list of suspicious people to put an extra eye on?
- hkt 5y ago
  The solution I have is a wired-in, locked down raspberry pi where I have a separate email account, PGP key, etc. Phones are definitely a writeoff though, with the possible exception of the PinePhone. If memory serves, the 4g modem lacks direct memory access which improves security substantially.
  - MerelyMortal 5y ago
    I'm not sure if the PinePhone advertised that. The Librem 5 advertised that though.
  - Jeff_Brown 5y ago
    Can anyone be sure an enormous open source project like a Linux distribution isn't backdoored?
    - kingcharles 5y ago
      For something with a lot of eyes on it, like the Linux kernel, I would think it unlikely. It's the smaller projects with no active maintenance that would be easier targets. At the end of the day, all operating systems have exploits. Nation states pay big money online to buy the exploits for their own use, before the good guys find them and out them. If your system is being compromised by a nation state, it is much more likely buy a purchased exploit than by an explicitly-added backdoor. I can't say anything about intercepting your communications, though. The NSA might or might not have technical ways of decrypting some of your encrypted communications.

yaomtc 5y ago

It's even easier these days with the web installer that GrapheneOS uses. https://grapheneos.org/install/web https://grapheneos.org/install/web

BLKNSLVR 5y ago

The frontend seems to be 100% shopify dependent (ie. the page is blank if the shopify domain is blocked), but I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

i67vw3 5y ago

ArcaneOS comes to my mind as a recent example. I always suggest anyone to load the custom ROM themselves or ask someone you know IRL to do it for you. If you think you do not have the expertise to do it, you should ask for help. There is a good chance that you will do something wrong and compeletely brick the phone. Rob Braxman sells degoogled phones on his online store https://brax.me/prod/host.php?f=_store&h=rob&p= https://brax.me/prod/host.php?f=_store&h=rob&p=. Some say he is goverment psyop while some think he is pretty legit https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/imf6vx/how_good_is_braxme/ https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/imf6vx/how_...

Osiris 5y ago
He ow can you trust the ArcaneOS releases to not be free from backdoors, etc? Even if you build the image yourself you're still relying on someone else's code. It reminds me of the office space quote, "no one can check all that code. Thumbs up their a$$es."

Terry_Roll 5y ago

So Google is balancing your privacy with their expansion. If something went to court Google could be what keeps you out of court, because unless there is an independent expert, manufacturers tend to become the defacto court expert and most of the time you are probably a tiny little cash cow for them and they like milking you.

fsflover 5y ago

> I think it's best practice for anyone wanting a de-googeled device to just buy one of these phones in store with cash and then load the custom OS themselves The best practice is to abandon locked down Android phones and switch to GNU/Linux phones (Librem 5 and Pinephone).

bluGill 5y ago
Long term, but the software isn't quite there, though improving. Worse the radios don't support everything my carrier does. 5g is a must where I live as 4g is being skipped in remote locations that are finally being upgraded from 2g.
- SahAssar 5y ago
  In that case a fairphone might meet your requiements while still being open to installing alternative OS'es.
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    Is fairphone available in the US yet?
    - SahAssar 5y ago
      Doesn't look like it, only continental europe & uk. The bands it supports are in use by Sprint and T-mobile though, so if you import it it will probably work on those carriers.
GeneralMaximus 5y ago
Linux phones are entirely impractical for most people. I live in India, and there are several apps I need to use to access government services that only work on iOS and Android. Some services aren't even available over the Web. We're at a point where any successful mobile OS will at least need to support running Android apps, preferably directly from the Play Store. I suspect this is one of the reasons Microsoft is adding Android support to Windows 11. I like the idea of an entirely FOSS phone, but sadly that ship sailed years ago.

em-bee 5y ago

how would you look at e.foundation in comparison? they sell phones with their own OS, so if you trust the OS then i think you can trust their phones.

sharikous 5y ago

The Google threat you can still mitigate or even escape. The US government one you can't. Sorry. As much as I wish I were wrong, the hardware is probably backdoored, so no custom OS will save you. Even if it weren't a phone by design has to communicate with radio towers (backdoored) and even if you get the most secure phone in the world you still have to communicate and pay for some exotic hardware. Guess who will get added to a list of suspicious people to put an extra eye on?

hkt 5y ago
The solution I have is a wired-in, locked down raspberry pi where I have a separate email account, PGP key, etc. Phones are definitely a writeoff though, with the possible exception of the PinePhone. If memory serves, the 4g modem lacks direct memory access which improves security substantially.
- MerelyMortal 5y ago
  I'm not sure if the PinePhone advertised that. The Librem 5 advertised that though.
- Jeff_Brown 5y ago
  Can anyone be sure an enormous open source project like a Linux distribution isn't backdoored?
  - kingcharles 5y ago
    For something with a lot of eyes on it, like the Linux kernel, I would think it unlikely. It's the smaller projects with no active maintenance that would be easier targets. At the end of the day, all operating systems have exploits. Nation states pay big money online to buy the exploits for their own use, before the good guys find them and out them. If your system is being compromised by a nation state, it is much more likely buy a purchased exploit than by an explicitly-added backdoor. I can't say anything about intercepting your communications, though. The NSA might or might not have technical ways of decrypting some of your encrypted communications.