6 ms·

> We need to protect Taiwan because they are a democracy. There is no “we” anymore. No way in hell am I sending my kids, or allowing my kids to be drafted to f

by zionic 5y ago

> We need to protect Taiwan because they are a democracy. There is no “we” anymore. No way in hell am I sending my kids, or allowing my kids to be drafted to fight for this stupid ass country. I don’t like Russia either, before anyone accuses me of that. I’m just pointing out that your collective interest delusion no longer exists, I feel no connection to the country I was born in. Fighting to protect its decaying corrupt corpse is the last thing I’ll do.

mlindner 5y ago
I'm not sure which country you're from but without Taiwan there is no Nvidia, Apple, or personal computers. Taiwan MUST be protected.
- farseer 5y ago
  Correction without Taiwan there is no Nvidia, Apple, or personal computers using the leading edge nodes <=7nm. There would be shortages but there is still Samsung and Intel is catching up.
  - astrange 5y ago
    That’s just TSMC. Taiwan has the leading contract manufacturers Foxconn and Quanta, MediaTek, etc. Not to mention they invented bubble tea.
- Fricken 5y ago
  If we weren't so antagonistic towards China, business with Taiwan would carry on as usual following a Chinese takeover.
  - mlindner 5y ago
    A Chinese takeover destroys TSMC, assuming it's not done through diplomacy. Industry does not survive war. That's one of the things that gets destroyed. And it most likely will not be done by diplomacy after Taiwan watched what happened to Hong Kong.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  There are more important things in my life than cutting edge personal electronic devices.
dillondoyle 5y ago
If this country in that context is China, I would volunteer to serve. Because it threatens the future for myself and the kids I would like to have. Not sure again on the context of the last sentence. But if it's Russia, and Russia begins to expand further into more of Europe than I'd also step up, but not right now as it stands. It's an existential threat.
- donw 5y ago
  > But if it's Russia, and Russia begins to expand further into more of Europe than I'd also step up, but not right now as it stands. No you won't. You'll talk tough on the internet, like a lot of other wardrummers. But when push comes to shove, you won't grab a rifle and go to work. That'll be somebody else's job, but you'll totes "stand with them in solidarity".
  - hef19898 5y ago
    If Russia wins in Ukraine, and doesn't stop there, Europe will switch to a war stance. In that case people won't have much choice. You either volunteer, are drafted or are working in an industry that makes your continued civil job more valuable than you being in the armed forces.
    - bilbo0s 5y ago
      I think you left out the option for people to leave. Particularly in the US where such a large percentage of our youth are immigrant/minority. Is a Chinese or Indian American 20, 25, or 30 year old faced with the prospect of dying for the EU going to join up? Or go live a happy life in Ningbo or Hyderbad? And those are the relatively successful immigrant/minorities. What will your average Colombian or Brazilian 25 year old do? Sign up to fight in the Balkans? Or go live a happy life in Rio well away from potential radioactive fallout zones? Not to even speak of Mexican 25 year olds or Black 25 year olds who already have a strained relationship with the US government as it stands. Now there will always be some people who choose not to fight, but the past 40 years or so we have fostered an atmosphere where we have greatly increased the number of people likely to fall in that camp. At least in the US. It'd be foolish to assume that in a nation of immigrants, people would not exercise the choice to return to their nations of origin faced with the prospect of a (likely nuclear eventually) conflict with Russia. Especially when we'd want to put most of those very people on the front lines of that conflict.
SirHound 5y ago
You might think that but the collective actions of the west suggest differently.
xinniethepooh 5y ago
There's no "we" because exactly your attitude lmao You point out some red herring, claim it's the base case, and thus it proves the entire viewpoint that it's some "decaying corrupt corpse" Compared to what, exactly?
- bilbo0s 5y ago
  He's kind of right though. And that was a message coming from someone whose family can be assumed to be relatively priveleged. How much cooperation will the draft man be met with in, say, our nation's black ghettos? Our problem is that our leaders have not fostered the necessary unity to actually prosecute any sort of war that requires "all hands on deck". We can't just say, "they have bad attitudes." (Well, we can, but then we'd be foolish in the extreme to go to war with China over Taiwan. It would be Vietnam all over again.) We have to find out why that guy/gal's family feels dejected, and address those issues. We've made so many people in the US feel like they're not part of the team that it's actually become dangerous as the world enters this new, unprecedented, and more precarious phase.
astrange 5y ago
Who’s “we”? Try fighting for Taiwan if you don’t like your own country then. If it’s the US nobody is ever getting drafted again. That’s just silly. Surprised you have kids if that’s the way you talk to your wife though.

by zionic 5y ago

mlindner 5y ago

I'm not sure which country you're from but without Taiwan there is no Nvidia, Apple, or personal computers. Taiwan MUST be protected.

farseer 5y ago
Correction without Taiwan there is no Nvidia, Apple, or personal computers using the leading edge nodes <=7nm. There would be shortages but there is still Samsung and Intel is catching up.
- astrange 5y ago
  That’s just TSMC. Taiwan has the leading contract manufacturers Foxconn and Quanta, MediaTek, etc. Not to mention they invented bubble tea.
Fricken 5y ago
If we weren't so antagonistic towards China, business with Taiwan would carry on as usual following a Chinese takeover.
- mlindner 5y ago
  A Chinese takeover destroys TSMC, assuming it's not done through diplomacy. Industry does not survive war. That's one of the things that gets destroyed. And it most likely will not be done by diplomacy after Taiwan watched what happened to Hong Kong.
xyzzyz 5y ago
There are more important things in my life than cutting edge personal electronic devices.

dillondoyle 5y ago

If this country in that context is China, I would volunteer to serve. Because it threatens the future for myself and the kids I would like to have. Not sure again on the context of the last sentence. But if it's Russia, and Russia begins to expand further into more of Europe than I'd also step up, but not right now as it stands. It's an existential threat.

donw 5y ago
> But if it's Russia, and Russia begins to expand further into more of Europe than I'd also step up, but not right now as it stands. No you won't. You'll talk tough on the internet, like a lot of other wardrummers. But when push comes to shove, you won't grab a rifle and go to work. That'll be somebody else's job, but you'll totes "stand with them in solidarity".
- hef19898 5y ago
  If Russia wins in Ukraine, and doesn't stop there, Europe will switch to a war stance. In that case people won't have much choice. You either volunteer, are drafted or are working in an industry that makes your continued civil job more valuable than you being in the armed forces.
  - bilbo0s 5y ago
    I think you left out the option for people to leave. Particularly in the US where such a large percentage of our youth are immigrant/minority. Is a Chinese or Indian American 20, 25, or 30 year old faced with the prospect of dying for the EU going to join up? Or go live a happy life in Ningbo or Hyderbad? And those are the relatively successful immigrant/minorities. What will your average Colombian or Brazilian 25 year old do? Sign up to fight in the Balkans? Or go live a happy life in Rio well away from potential radioactive fallout zones? Not to even speak of Mexican 25 year olds or Black 25 year olds who already have a strained relationship with the US government as it stands. Now there will always be some people who choose not to fight, but the past 40 years or so we have fostered an atmosphere where we have greatly increased the number of people likely to fall in that camp. At least in the US. It'd be foolish to assume that in a nation of immigrants, people would not exercise the choice to return to their nations of origin faced with the prospect of a (likely nuclear eventually) conflict with Russia. Especially when we'd want to put most of those very people on the front lines of that conflict.

SirHound 5y ago

You might think that but the collective actions of the west suggest differently.

xinniethepooh 5y ago

There's no "we" because exactly your attitude lmao You point out some red herring, claim it's the base case, and thus it proves the entire viewpoint that it's some "decaying corrupt corpse" Compared to what, exactly?

bilbo0s 5y ago
He's kind of right though. And that was a message coming from someone whose family can be assumed to be relatively priveleged. How much cooperation will the draft man be met with in, say, our nation's black ghettos? Our problem is that our leaders have not fostered the necessary unity to actually prosecute any sort of war that requires "all hands on deck". We can't just say, "they have bad attitudes." (Well, we can, but then we'd be foolish in the extreme to go to war with China over Taiwan. It would be Vietnam all over again.) We have to find out why that guy/gal's family feels dejected, and address those issues. We've made so many people in the US feel like they're not part of the team that it's actually become dangerous as the world enters this new, unprecedented, and more precarious phase.

astrange 5y ago

Who’s “we”? Try fighting for Taiwan if you don’t like your own country then. If it’s the US nobody is ever getting drafted again. That’s just silly. Surprised you have kids if that’s the way you talk to your wife though.