5 ms·

Agreed. I want more native apps, not less. I cringe when I see web apps that are slow, don’t take advantage of native API’s, and have a completely different loo

Agreed. I want more native apps, not less. I cringe when I see web apps that are slow, don’t take advantage of native API’s, and have a completely different look and feel from the OS. No thanks.

mtomweb 5y ago
There’s nothing inherently special to native about painting to the screen 60 times a second. Web Apps if allowed could provide equivalent (and sometimes much better) experiences than native. But it’s a chicken and egg problem, and it’s mainly Apple holding it back.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > There’s nothing inherently special to native about painting to the screen 60 times a second. It isn't, and it's also a near impossibility for the web. > Web Apps if allowed could provide equivalent (and sometimes much better) experiences than native. No. No, they couldn't. Of course, you could say "but WebGL/Canvas/WebGPU", but then you're just building native apps with multiple extra steps.
  - mtomweb 5y ago
    If you can’t get 60fps on a midrange consumer device you are doing something wrong. WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them.
    - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
      >WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them. Accessibility.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      > If you can’t get 60fps on a midrange consumer device you are doing something wrong. Show me how to reliably do 60 FPS on anything that causes re-layout. Example: animating an item added or removed from the list without hacks. > WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them. 1. Accessibility 2. These are basically native technologies. So, you're basically using native tech, with extra steps 3. Between WebGL, Canvas and upcoming WebGPU you have three incompatible technologies with a list of shortcomings longer than the equator
- norman784 5y ago
  Web apps already dominate the desktop (aka Electron) and I don't see where they are better/equal than a native app (except maybe vscode that is closer than many others). If you can point me why Slack, Teams, WhatsApp desktop, Telegram, etc need too much ram to render a simple list + chat and call that efficient, then I would believe you about web apps being good.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    By the way, Slack eats up to 17% CPU to display a single animated reaction :) https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486364312910368769 https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486364312910368769 TweetDeck spikes to 22% CPU just to display a tooltip: https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486629036520521734 https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486629036520521734 Truly an amazing technology.
    - gjvc 5y ago
      JetBrains IDEs are just as bad, if not worse, because they force the user to cope with slow interactions, unless you are on a Mac, apparently.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        Did you just compare a full-blown IDE to a single window with nothing but a list of text and images? Edit: and yes, Slack consumes 17% of CPU power to display animated reactions on an M1 processor.
        gjvc 5y ago
        The difference is that people enjoy using Slack out of the box. JetBrains' products are intolerably laggy out of the box on unless one is using top-end hardware.

Agreed. I want more native apps, not less. I cringe when I see web apps that are slow, don’t take advantage of native API’s, and have a completely different look and feel from the OS. No thanks.

mtomweb 5y ago

There’s nothing inherently special to native about painting to the screen 60 times a second. Web Apps if allowed could provide equivalent (and sometimes much better) experiences than native. But it’s a chicken and egg problem, and it’s mainly Apple holding it back.

dmitriid 5y ago
> There’s nothing inherently special to native about painting to the screen 60 times a second. It isn't, and it's also a near impossibility for the web. > Web Apps if allowed could provide equivalent (and sometimes much better) experiences than native. No. No, they couldn't. Of course, you could say "but WebGL/Canvas/WebGPU", but then you're just building native apps with multiple extra steps.
- mtomweb 5y ago
  If you can’t get 60fps on a midrange consumer device you are doing something wrong. WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    >WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them. Accessibility.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > If you can’t get 60fps on a midrange consumer device you are doing something wrong. Show me how to reliably do 60 FPS on anything that causes re-layout. Example: animating an item added or removed from the list without hacks. > WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them. 1. Accessibility 2. These are basically native technologies. So, you're basically using native tech, with extra steps 3. Between WebGL, Canvas and upcoming WebGPU you have three incompatible technologies with a list of shortcomings longer than the equator
norman784 5y ago
Web apps already dominate the desktop (aka Electron) and I don't see where they are better/equal than a native app (except maybe vscode that is closer than many others). If you can point me why Slack, Teams, WhatsApp desktop, Telegram, etc need too much ram to render a simple list + chat and call that efficient, then I would believe you about web apps being good.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  By the way, Slack eats up to 17% CPU to display a single animated reaction :) https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486364312910368769 https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486364312910368769 TweetDeck spikes to 22% CPU just to display a tooltip: https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486629036520521734 https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486629036520521734 Truly an amazing technology.
  - gjvc 5y ago
    JetBrains IDEs are just as bad, if not worse, because they force the user to cope with slow interactions, unless you are on a Mac, apparently.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      Did you just compare a full-blown IDE to a single window with nothing but a list of text and images? Edit: and yes, Slack consumes 17% of CPU power to display animated reactions on an M1 processor.
      - gjvc 5y ago
        The difference is that people enjoy using Slack out of the box. JetBrains' products are intolerably laggy out of the box on unless one is using top-end hardware.