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When the day comes when US tanks cross over into Canada to annex it under a false pretext, running over passenger vehicles; when the US tells its soldiers they

When the day comes when US tanks cross over into Canada to annex it under a false pretext, running over passenger vehicles; when the US tells its soldiers they are going on a military exercise only to have them shoot at their neighbor; when the US tells the world "if you get involved we'll nuke you"; when the US jails its anti-war protestors for as much as carrying a sign... then perhaps your comparison will be valid. Until then you're just deflecting.

vasac 5y ago
When you already mentioned false pretexes - how's going on with finding WMD in Iraq? Any seccess yet? Is shooting at neighbor worse than shooting at people half over the world (or they don't count because of wrong skin color)?
- Svettie 5y ago
  It's becoming increasingly apparent that the only thing that matters at all is power. Sadly, the USA is responsible for establishing this paradigm, although pointing this out is taboo whataboutism. Now, we're returning to a world as it's always been: apes compelling other apes with their sticks.
  - ovao 5y ago
    Could you clarify ‘paradigm’ in context?
    - Svettie 5y ago
      sure, I mean the paradigm of using military force, and more generally disregarding international law to achieve geopolitical goals
- jacktribe 5y ago
  The morality of any military action, can and has been endlessly debated (as it should) because it's non-binary, it's a spectrum. That does not change the fact that these two superpowers could not be further apart in how they go about spreading their influence around the world. Through oversimplification you can argue that anything is the same as its opposite.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    There is a reason that when given a choice, nearly all European countries chose NATO over Russia. We don't have to build a wall to keep our people in. Or our allies for that matter.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  WMDs or not, Saddam Hussein's Iraq did not in any way resemble Canada or Ukraine. The problem with this kind of whatabboutism is that the US invades places run by morally reprehensible people. To keep the comparison with Ukraine going, you've either got to convince us that Saddam Hussein was a nice guy, or Zelenskyy is a butcher. Everyone knows that's bullshit.
  - sgpl 5y ago
    Just because a place doesn't resemble Canada or Ukraine or people who look and act like your version of civilized society doesn't give the US a right to wage war resulting in large numbers of civilians being displaced or killed. What's happening in Ukraine is reprehensible - but the result of US policy blunders in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, numerous South American countries and the like has been more damaging for the world we live in IMO. While this isn't an apples to apples comparison, maybe you've got to convince us that the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. are better off after US involvement. From my perspective, the answer is an obvious 'no'. Even under Saddam Hussein (who was a dictator and evil person - I'm in agreement there) the people of Iraq, who lived under some repression in their daily lives, were better off than before the US invasion.
    - stickfigure 5y ago
      Afghanistan (by supporting Bin Laden and his organization) attacked the US first. Kick sleeping dogs, get bit. In Iraq, about a third of the population (the Kurds) are unequivocally better off. About a third (he Shias) are arguable. The Sunnis, no, but they were the ones beating up the others. The final history hasn't been written yet (and it could get worse, no question). Still, the story is incompetence rather than malevolence. Marching in and killing Hussein is easily defensible on moral grounds. The chaos after is not. Blunders in Latin America have to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Mostly they involved supporting one side or another in an existing civil war. The worst excesses predate WW2. Nobody claims that the US has an angelic past, but comparison to Putin's Russia is not apt.
      - sgpl 5y ago

vasac 5y ago

When you already mentioned false pretexes - how's going on with finding WMD in Iraq? Any seccess yet? Is shooting at neighbor worse than shooting at people half over the world (or they don't count because of wrong skin color)?

Svettie 5y ago
It's becoming increasingly apparent that the only thing that matters at all is power. Sadly, the USA is responsible for establishing this paradigm, although pointing this out is taboo whataboutism. Now, we're returning to a world as it's always been: apes compelling other apes with their sticks.
- ovao 5y ago
  Could you clarify ‘paradigm’ in context?
  - Svettie 5y ago
    sure, I mean the paradigm of using military force, and more generally disregarding international law to achieve geopolitical goals
jacktribe 5y ago
The morality of any military action, can and has been endlessly debated (as it should) because it's non-binary, it's a spectrum. That does not change the fact that these two superpowers could not be further apart in how they go about spreading their influence around the world. Through oversimplification you can argue that anything is the same as its opposite.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  There is a reason that when given a choice, nearly all European countries chose NATO over Russia. We don't have to build a wall to keep our people in. Or our allies for that matter.
stickfigure 5y ago
WMDs or not, Saddam Hussein's Iraq did not in any way resemble Canada or Ukraine. The problem with this kind of whatabboutism is that the US invades places run by morally reprehensible people. To keep the comparison with Ukraine going, you've either got to convince us that Saddam Hussein was a nice guy, or Zelenskyy is a butcher. Everyone knows that's bullshit.
- sgpl 5y ago
  Just because a place doesn't resemble Canada or Ukraine or people who look and act like your version of civilized society doesn't give the US a right to wage war resulting in large numbers of civilians being displaced or killed. What's happening in Ukraine is reprehensible - but the result of US policy blunders in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, numerous South American countries and the like has been more damaging for the world we live in IMO. While this isn't an apples to apples comparison, maybe you've got to convince us that the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. are better off after US involvement. From my perspective, the answer is an obvious 'no'. Even under Saddam Hussein (who was a dictator and evil person - I'm in agreement there) the people of Iraq, who lived under some repression in their daily lives, were better off than before the US invasion.
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    Afghanistan (by supporting Bin Laden and his organization) attacked the US first. Kick sleeping dogs, get bit. In Iraq, about a third of the population (the Kurds) are unequivocally better off. About a third (he Shias) are arguable. The Sunnis, no, but they were the ones beating up the others. The final history hasn't been written yet (and it could get worse, no question). Still, the story is incompetence rather than malevolence. Marching in and killing Hussein is easily defensible on moral grounds. The chaos after is not. Blunders in Latin America have to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Mostly they involved supporting one side or another in an existing civil war. The worst excesses predate WW2. Nobody claims that the US has an angelic past, but comparison to Putin's Russia is not apt.
    - sgpl 5y ago