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> How the fsck is that better than having a single web engine that makes web apps equals among native apps and avoids monopolistic american megacorp from tellin

> How the fsck is that better than having a single web engine that makes web apps equals among native apps and avoids monopolistic american megacorp from telling you what you're allowed to create? You mean, like Chrome? Developed by the monopolistic American megacorp called Google? Also, if PWA’s and Electron apps are your version of “equal to native” I’m going to have to strongly disagree.

izacus 5y ago
Yes, I prefer strong Chrome market share with possibility of competition from Apple, Mozilla and others. I strongly believe Apple is capable of building a better browser even if they don't get to cripple their competition with monopolistic practices. Instead, you're defending Apple monopoly where they ban all competition, stagnate web development and make PWAs and other web-apps a non-viable possibility on their devices. All because... you don't like Chrome? Although you'd still have a full option of using Firefox, Safari or others? Why? Because someone else might DARE to use a product THEY prefer?
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > make PWAs and other web-apps a non-viable possibility on their devices It's such a blatant lie about PWAs. And thank god Safari and Mozilla don't implement dozens of Chrome-only non-standards.
astromd 5y ago
Agreed. I want more native apps, not less. I cringe when I see web apps that are slow, don’t take advantage of native API’s, and have a completely different look and feel from the OS. No thanks.
- mtomweb 5y ago
  There’s nothing inherently special to native about painting to the screen 60 times a second. Web Apps if allowed could provide equivalent (and sometimes much better) experiences than native. But it’s a chicken and egg problem, and it’s mainly Apple holding it back.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > There’s nothing inherently special to native about painting to the screen 60 times a second. It isn't, and it's also a near impossibility for the web. > Web Apps if allowed could provide equivalent (and sometimes much better) experiences than native. No. No, they couldn't. Of course, you could say "but WebGL/Canvas/WebGPU", but then you're just building native apps with multiple extra steps.
    - mtomweb 5y ago
      If you can’t get 60fps on a midrange consumer device you are doing something wrong. WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them.
      - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
        >WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them. Accessibility.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        > If you can’t get 60fps on a midrange consumer device you are doing something wrong. Show me how to reliably do 60 FPS on anything that causes re-layout. Example: animating an item added or removed from the list without hacks. > WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them. 1. Accessibility 2. These are basically native technologies. So, you're basically using native tech, with extra steps 3. Between WebGL, Canvas and upcoming WebGPU you have three incompatible technologies with a list of shortcomings longer than the equator
  - norman784 5y ago
    Web apps already dominate the desktop (aka Electron) and I don't see where they are better/equal than a native app (except maybe vscode that is closer than many others). If you can point me why Slack, Teams, WhatsApp desktop, Telegram, etc need too much ram to render a simple list + chat and call that efficient, then I would believe you about web apps being good.

izacus 5y ago

Yes, I prefer strong Chrome market share with possibility of competition from Apple, Mozilla and others. I strongly believe Apple is capable of building a better browser even if they don't get to cripple their competition with monopolistic practices. Instead, you're defending Apple monopoly where they ban all competition, stagnate web development and make PWAs and other web-apps a non-viable possibility on their devices. All because... you don't like Chrome? Although you'd still have a full option of using Firefox, Safari or others? Why? Because someone else might DARE to use a product THEY prefer?

dmitriid 5y ago
> make PWAs and other web-apps a non-viable possibility on their devices It's such a blatant lie about PWAs. And thank god Safari and Mozilla don't implement dozens of Chrome-only non-standards.

astromd 5y ago

Agreed. I want more native apps, not less. I cringe when I see web apps that are slow, don’t take advantage of native API’s, and have a completely different look and feel from the OS. No thanks.

mtomweb 5y ago
There’s nothing inherently special to native about painting to the screen 60 times a second. Web Apps if allowed could provide equivalent (and sometimes much better) experiences than native. But it’s a chicken and egg problem, and it’s mainly Apple holding it back.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > There’s nothing inherently special to native about painting to the screen 60 times a second. It isn't, and it's also a near impossibility for the web. > Web Apps if allowed could provide equivalent (and sometimes much better) experiences than native. No. No, they couldn't. Of course, you could say "but WebGL/Canvas/WebGPU", but then you're just building native apps with multiple extra steps.
  - mtomweb 5y ago
    If you can’t get 60fps on a midrange consumer device you are doing something wrong. WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them.
    - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
      >WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them. Accessibility.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      > If you can’t get 60fps on a midrange consumer device you are doing something wrong. Show me how to reliably do 60 FPS on anything that causes re-layout. Example: animating an item added or removed from the list without hacks. > WebGL / Canvas are web standards, no issue with using them. 1. Accessibility 2. These are basically native technologies. So, you're basically using native tech, with extra steps 3. Between WebGL, Canvas and upcoming WebGPU you have three incompatible technologies with a list of shortcomings longer than the equator
- norman784 5y ago
  Web apps already dominate the desktop (aka Electron) and I don't see where they are better/equal than a native app (except maybe vscode that is closer than many others). If you can point me why Slack, Teams, WhatsApp desktop, Telegram, etc need too much ram to render a simple list + chat and call that efficient, then I would believe you about web apps being good.