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There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death. Protesting the war is one of them. Leavi

There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death. Protesting the war is one of them. Leaving is another. Being complicit and dying are not the only two options.

int_19h 5y ago
An average Russian can't just pack up bags and leave willy-nilly. Few countries will issue a visa for anything other than tourism or short-term business. If one has skills that are in demand (say, IT), it's easier - but most people don't have those skills. I fail to see how protesting the war is a "way to not pay Russian taxes". Unless you specifically mean refusing to pay taxes to protest the war, which would go about as well in Russia as it would in US. Well, except that, once you get arrested, the cops are likely to "entertain" themselves by e.g. putting a gas mask on you and squeezing the hose. Or shoving a bottle into your anus. Or just beating you with rubber batons until you pass out.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  The protesting issue you describe is a tragedy of commons. Mass denial of global services to Russian people is exactly the incentive for them to overcome it.
remram 5y ago
> There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death. Protesting the war is one of them. Do stores refund your VAT if you have a protest sign or something?
- lostmsu 5y ago
  I feel insulted by your attempt to play dumb. Protesting is a way to stop the money you already paid from going towards the war.
  - int_19h 5y ago
    Protests in Russia are not a way to stop the government from doing anything. Haven't been for over a decade.
    - lostmsu 5y ago
      That is debatable. Worked in Ukraine, I don't see what is so different about Russia, especially now when a lot of people understand that Putin is not just an authoritarian, but a completely deranged one.
      - int_19h 5y ago
        Ukraine was never an authoritarian country, not even under Yanukovich. He tried to go there after the protests started, and the rest is history. Russia has been an authoritarian country since 2011 at the very least - and arguably longer, just of a softer variety prior to that - when the regime crushed the largest protest in Putin's times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_prot...). By now, it has a special branch of internal armed forces - National Guard / Rosgvardia - which is used primarily against protesters. So yes, there's a big difference in practice.
        lostmsu 5y ago
        Well, yes it is obviously different, but it is a weak proof for impossibly of change via protest.
        int_19h 5y ago
        I did not assert impossibility of change via protest. Only that, given where Russia is now, it would have to be violent, armed protest. And you're not going to get people engaged in that with economic sanctions, no matter how severe.
splix 5y ago
Russia tax income is less than $20B. But income from selling gas/oil is $80B, plus about same from other types of resource export. So if we talk about not paying taxes it's the Europe who buys that gas should stop buying it, that would make much bigger effect.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Not being EU citizen, I am in no position to tell them to stop, though personally I definitely would.

int_19h 5y ago

An average Russian can't just pack up bags and leave willy-nilly. Few countries will issue a visa for anything other than tourism or short-term business. If one has skills that are in demand (say, IT), it's easier - but most people don't have those skills. I fail to see how protesting the war is a "way to not pay Russian taxes". Unless you specifically mean refusing to pay taxes to protest the war, which would go about as well in Russia as it would in US. Well, except that, once you get arrested, the cops are likely to "entertain" themselves by e.g. putting a gas mask on you and squeezing the hose. Or shoving a bottle into your anus. Or just beating you with rubber batons until you pass out.

lostmsu 5y ago
The protesting issue you describe is a tragedy of commons. Mass denial of global services to Russian people is exactly the incentive for them to overcome it.

remram 5y ago

> There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death. Protesting the war is one of them. Do stores refund your VAT if you have a protest sign or something?

lostmsu 5y ago
I feel insulted by your attempt to play dumb. Protesting is a way to stop the money you already paid from going towards the war.
- int_19h 5y ago
  Protests in Russia are not a way to stop the government from doing anything. Haven't been for over a decade.
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    That is debatable. Worked in Ukraine, I don't see what is so different about Russia, especially now when a lot of people understand that Putin is not just an authoritarian, but a completely deranged one.
    - int_19h 5y ago
      Ukraine was never an authoritarian country, not even under Yanukovich. He tried to go there after the protests started, and the rest is history. Russia has been an authoritarian country since 2011 at the very least - and arguably longer, just of a softer variety prior to that - when the regime crushed the largest protest in Putin's times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_prot...). By now, it has a special branch of internal armed forces - National Guard / Rosgvardia - which is used primarily against protesters. So yes, there's a big difference in practice.
      - lostmsu 5y ago
        Well, yes it is obviously different, but it is a weak proof for impossibly of change via protest.
        int_19h 5y ago
        I did not assert impossibility of change via protest. Only that, given where Russia is now, it would have to be violent, armed protest. And you're not going to get people engaged in that with economic sanctions, no matter how severe.

splix 5y ago

Russia tax income is less than $20B. But income from selling gas/oil is $80B, plus about same from other types of resource export. So if we talk about not paying taxes it's the Europe who buys that gas should stop buying it, that would make much bigger effect.

lostmsu 5y ago
Not being EU citizen, I am in no position to tell them to stop, though personally I definitely would.