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Russian state news declared victory too soon and quickly deletes article

71 points by enaaem 5y ago

enaaem 5y ago
Use google translate. They thought the war would last 2 days and prepared and article beforehand. The article reveals Putins ambition of creating a Greater Russia.
- rnk 5y ago
  It also says "the unipolar world is over", the anglo-saxon are going to lose, and the new world order is coming.
  - rnk 5y ago
    I didn't see where it mentioned 2 days. It does look like something Putin would have reviewed ahead of time.
    - tguvot 5y ago
      article went up on 26th. Invasion started on 24th. There is a good chance that it was actually supposed to start at 22nd but got delayed (all putin speeches were recorded at 21st). Also there is political "clown" called Zhirinovsky, who somehow always says stuff that happens later. In speech that he gave in december he said that on February 22 at 4am Russia will become great again and world will change forever. When i saw this speach two weeks ago i knew that shit will hit the fan.
- guilhas 5y ago
  Or it does reveal that Putin has no intention to have a war. Only wants Ukraine to surrender and sign something that says they will be neutral in the future and not join NATO
archi42 5y ago
> Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations. After all, the need to solve it would always remain the main problem for Russia > Now this problem is gone - Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be reorganized, re-established and returned to its natural state of part of the Russian world. > This is a conflict between Russia and the West, this is a response to the geopolitical expansion of the Atlanticists, this is Russia's return of its historical space and its place in the world The whole pamphlet makes me want to vomit. But still ~nice~ (no, totally wrong connotation)... revealing(?) to get some more insight into the... whatever one should call that kind of thinking.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  It's pretty typical for rhetoric in that part of the world. People in other parts of the world have similar responses to American speeches.
  - tguvot 5y ago
    you are mistaken. it's not rhetoric. they really do believe in this.
    - rpmisms 5y ago
      And we "really do believe" in our politicians' speeches, despite how absurd they sound.
      - tguvot 5y ago
        It's literally what a bunch of population really believe in. i been couch surfing livejournal (which is mostly russian those days). it's real believe and desire of many russian people. right now a bunch of them saying "he made a right call, we need to go all the way through it, and sanctions will make us stronger and independent". and no, it's not trolls for hire. it's people that been posting this kind of stuff for 15 years
tyleo 5y ago
It is clear from this that things have gone horribly awry for Russia. It seems that the expectation was that this would be a quick job with the West more or less shaking their fist. The situation has devolved into near complete economic isolation for Russia with a West more united than ever and most of Russia's allies distancing them. Plan A has failed. I do not know what the gains from any Plan B are (if there is one). I can't imagine they would be a net positive. Even in the most optimistic scenario I can't imagine this will be anything but a catastrophe for Russia.
- wahern 5y ago
  > Even in the most optimistic scenario I can't imagine this will be anything but a catastrophe for Russia. The danger now is that Putin may be irreversibly committed, backed into a corner. Doesn't matter that it was a situation of his own making--it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Ukrainians are rightly Russians as he claims, then what he's done is proven in spectacular fashion that Russian culture is capable of building a modern, progressive, and democratic national identity to which the population is willing to give their lives. That undeniably poses an existential crisis for the Russian regime and more generally it's entire historical political self-identity. I know some people have argued that this is why Putin invaded in the first place. But I believe Putin, like most Russians, simply believed that the political culture was incapable of democracy. And most of the West strongly suspected that as well. IMO, Putin merely wanted to consolidate what he considered to be areas of natural cultural affinity, to Russia's geostrategic benefit, of course.
  - 0x38B 5y ago
    How’s this (reportedly) 64-km long column of Russian tanks and armor outside Kyiv for ‘irreversibly committed’? (1) 1: https://t.me/uniannet/33675 https://t.me/uniannet/33675 I’m afraid that Putin can’t afford to lose face now that he’s started.
    - wahern 5y ago
      If Ukrainians continue to put up a good fight and maintain strategically significant control, the risk of a nuclear war increases. With Western weapons flowing into Ukraine, Putin might do something extreme as a scare tactic. I doubt there's much increased risk of a nuclear volley; if Putin did do the unthinkable, the West would almost certainly cease the flow of arms. But that still constitutes a nuclear war, leaving behind a far bleaker and far more unpredictable legacy.
yks 5y ago
People unironically writing about "solution to Ukrainian question" invade Ukraine claiming it is "nazi". Truly, psychological projection is the best tool to understand someone's soul.
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  Russian state disinformation 101 is projecting whatever they're doing to the other side. They want to flood the Russian and weaker-minded western spheres with conflicting reports of the same thing, wearing them down into helpless cynicism. Because that's all they can hope rather than actually convince them of the total opposite.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
It took 5 days to conquer the Netherlands in WW2 (and that was after bombing a major city). Two days for a country the size of Ukraine seems delusional. Did they really anticipate to be greeted as liberators?
- rsynnott 5y ago
  There's a bit of a history of this; notably, the Germans really did seem to have extremely unrealistic expectations of progress vs the Soviet Union in WW2. At least in that case there was a lot of drinking their own koolaid going on; the anti-Soviet propaganda was so intense that the leadership started believing it.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > Did they really anticipate to be greeted as liberators? In a nutshell, yes. They apparently believed their own bullshit, which is hard to grasp but that seems to be the case. More and more evidence of extremely unrealistic timetables and tons of under-estimations regarding supply lines and required resources are surfacing. Initially the theory was that this was part of some grand plan but more and more the picture that emerges is one of extreme optimism compounded by old materiel, demotivated troops and outright incompetence. That doesn't mean that this is over, but it could have been a whole lot worse at this point in time. Unfortunately the future is still wide open.

71 points by enaaem 5y ago

Use google translate. They thought the war would last 2 days and prepared and article beforehand. The article reveals Putins ambition of creating a Greater Russia.

rnk 5y ago
It also says "the unipolar world is over", the anglo-saxon are going to lose, and the new world order is coming.
- rnk 5y ago
  I didn't see where it mentioned 2 days. It does look like something Putin would have reviewed ahead of time.
  - tguvot 5y ago
    article went up on 26th. Invasion started on 24th. There is a good chance that it was actually supposed to start at 22nd but got delayed (all putin speeches were recorded at 21st). Also there is political "clown" called Zhirinovsky, who somehow always says stuff that happens later. In speech that he gave in december he said that on February 22 at 4am Russia will become great again and world will change forever. When i saw this speach two weeks ago i knew that shit will hit the fan.
guilhas 5y ago
Or it does reveal that Putin has no intention to have a war. Only wants Ukraine to surrender and sign something that says they will be neutral in the future and not join NATO

archi42 5y ago

> Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations. After all, the need to solve it would always remain the main problem for Russia > Now this problem is gone - Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be reorganized, re-established and returned to its natural state of part of the Russian world. > This is a conflict between Russia and the West, this is a response to the geopolitical expansion of the Atlanticists, this is Russia's return of its historical space and its place in the world The whole pamphlet makes me want to vomit. But still ~nice~ (no, totally wrong connotation)... revealing(?) to get some more insight into the... whatever one should call that kind of thinking.

jacquesm 5y ago
It's pretty typical for rhetoric in that part of the world. People in other parts of the world have similar responses to American speeches.
- tguvot 5y ago
  you are mistaken. it's not rhetoric. they really do believe in this.
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    And we "really do believe" in our politicians' speeches, despite how absurd they sound.
    - tguvot 5y ago
      It's literally what a bunch of population really believe in. i been couch surfing livejournal (which is mostly russian those days). it's real believe and desire of many russian people. right now a bunch of them saying "he made a right call, we need to go all the way through it, and sanctions will make us stronger and independent". and no, it's not trolls for hire. it's people that been posting this kind of stuff for 15 years

tyleo 5y ago

It is clear from this that things have gone horribly awry for Russia. It seems that the expectation was that this would be a quick job with the West more or less shaking their fist. The situation has devolved into near complete economic isolation for Russia with a West more united than ever and most of Russia's allies distancing them. Plan A has failed. I do not know what the gains from any Plan B are (if there is one). I can't imagine they would be a net positive. Even in the most optimistic scenario I can't imagine this will be anything but a catastrophe for Russia.

wahern 5y ago
> Even in the most optimistic scenario I can't imagine this will be anything but a catastrophe for Russia. The danger now is that Putin may be irreversibly committed, backed into a corner. Doesn't matter that it was a situation of his own making--it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Ukrainians are rightly Russians as he claims, then what he's done is proven in spectacular fashion that Russian culture is capable of building a modern, progressive, and democratic national identity to which the population is willing to give their lives. That undeniably poses an existential crisis for the Russian regime and more generally it's entire historical political self-identity. I know some people have argued that this is why Putin invaded in the first place. But I believe Putin, like most Russians, simply believed that the political culture was incapable of democracy. And most of the West strongly suspected that as well. IMO, Putin merely wanted to consolidate what he considered to be areas of natural cultural affinity, to Russia's geostrategic benefit, of course.
- 0x38B 5y ago
  How’s this (reportedly) 64-km long column of Russian tanks and armor outside Kyiv for ‘irreversibly committed’? (1) 1: https://t.me/uniannet/33675 https://t.me/uniannet/33675 I’m afraid that Putin can’t afford to lose face now that he’s started.
  - wahern 5y ago
    If Ukrainians continue to put up a good fight and maintain strategically significant control, the risk of a nuclear war increases. With Western weapons flowing into Ukraine, Putin might do something extreme as a scare tactic. I doubt there's much increased risk of a nuclear volley; if Putin did do the unthinkable, the West would almost certainly cease the flow of arms. But that still constitutes a nuclear war, leaving behind a far bleaker and far more unpredictable legacy.

yks 5y ago

People unironically writing about "solution to Ukrainian question" invade Ukraine claiming it is "nazi". Truly, psychological projection is the best tool to understand someone's soul.

reducesuffering 5y ago
Russian state disinformation 101 is projecting whatever they're doing to the other side. They want to flood the Russian and weaker-minded western spheres with conflicting reports of the same thing, wearing them down into helpless cynicism. Because that's all they can hope rather than actually convince them of the total opposite.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

It took 5 days to conquer the Netherlands in WW2 (and that was after bombing a major city). Two days for a country the size of Ukraine seems delusional. Did they really anticipate to be greeted as liberators?

rsynnott 5y ago
There's a bit of a history of this; notably, the Germans really did seem to have extremely unrealistic expectations of progress vs the Soviet Union in WW2. At least in that case there was a lot of drinking their own koolaid going on; the anti-Soviet propaganda was so intense that the leadership started believing it.
jacquesm 5y ago
> Did they really anticipate to be greeted as liberators? In a nutshell, yes. They apparently believed their own bullshit, which is hard to grasp but that seems to be the case. More and more evidence of extremely unrealistic timetables and tons of under-estimations regarding supply lines and required resources are surfacing. Initially the theory was that this was part of some grand plan but more and more the picture that emerges is one of extreme optimism compounded by old materiel, demotivated troops and outright incompetence. That doesn't mean that this is over, but it could have been a whole lot worse at this point in time. Unfortunately the future is still wide open.