7 ms·

F-droid gets many things right (e.g. verifiable builds), but it's just not usable in practice. Installing applications is a rare event, updating them is freque

F-droid gets many things right (e.g. verifiable builds), but it's just not usable in practice. Installing applications is a rare event, updating them is frequent, and needs to disrupt the user as little as possible. Android used to not allow alternative app stores to update apps without user interaction, but now supports this through UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION, which doesn't seem to be supported by F-droid. So it's manual clicking for each update. F-droid also somehow gets the regular update flow wrong and often (always?) shows an error when you try to install the update from the notification. That has remained unfixed for years. So you have to manually open it, initiate the update, then click through the dialogs. Additionally, the official repos update so slowly that they're useless for fast-moving stuff like NewPipe. Together with Android bugs like https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/204233247 https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/204233247 (resetting all "open with" URIs on update), this makes using packages installed through F-Droid a nightmare.

simcop2387 5y ago
I believe this is a result of fdroid wanting to support older android versions for longer than google does. They could probably make two versions to allow this though but that would require more maintenance
btdmaster 5y ago
Issue tracking here: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/2316 https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/2316
staindk 5y ago
Not really a counter point because you mention a lot of other issues with f-droid that sound valid (I haven't used it myself) - but as a tangent regarding auto updates, I disable them basically everywhere because I seem to have buggy experiences too often if I allow stuff to update all the time. I then go through the list of updates in the Play Store once a week or so and install those that I think might improve app functioning/stability. I look over and install Windows updates once a way-too-long (need to work on this). Feel like everyone is skimping on QA these days or something else fishy is going on. In the last handful of years there have been 2 or 3 Windows updates that either permanently erased data or caused some other insane issues. I didn't get them (tbf I understand that most people didn't), partially thanks to having auto updates disabled.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > In the last handful of years there have been 2 or 3 Windows updates that either permanently erased data or caused some other insane issues. I'm still mad about the Windows update that permanently stopped Windows from working with my Bose headphones. The headphones continued to work perfectly with anything that wasn't running Windows.
  - infinityio 5y ago
    Out of interest, have you tested them on win11? One of the later win10 updates broke my Bluetooth headphones (actually, Bluetooth in general became pretty buggy), but they 'magically' unbroke after the upgrade
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      No, I haven't.
    - hansel_der 5y ago
      ime bluetooth has been buggy ever since. not always, but it failed me countless times in the worst situations. one reason why a phone has to have a 3,5mm jack.
- andai 5y ago
  >I look over and install Windows updates once a way-too-long I thought you needed some kind of registry hacks or something to disable automatic updates since W10, can you elaborate on how you got it to stop pestering you?
  - lsferreira42 5y ago
    I followed this website and it works: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10 https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-a...
    - 5y ago
ancientsofmumu 5y ago
> ...but it's just not usable in practice. > ...this makes using packages installed through F-Droid a nightmare. I run 2x Androids with near 80%-90% of the packages installed from F-Droid repos (to include Bromite and Bitwarden custom repos); it has quirks and is not perfect - but far from "not usable" and "nightmare" as your hyperbole would suggest.
- newaccount74 5y ago
  Same here. Curation could still be better on F-Droid, but I'm very happy with it overall. Thank you whoever is behind it, you're doing a great job.
- prvc 5y ago
  This is exaggerated language, but the described traits are certainly inconvenient, unpleasant, and unnecessarily time consuming for the user.
kbelder 5y ago
In order to reduce disruption from updates, I've found it necessary to turn them off. I'll go into the play store and update the ones I want to update, when I want to. So for at least some users, this isn't a problem at all. It's a better default.
6yyyyyy 5y ago
>So it's manual clicking for each update. You need to install the F-Droid Privileged Extension, or use a ROM that has it pre-installed. That way it can update apps without user interaction.
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  Ah, but it looks like that means you need to be rooted?
  - undersuit 5y ago
    Yes the Android OS requires you to be rooted to add the feature if your image wasn't built with the privileged extension.
  - nobodywasishere 5y ago
    You don't need to be rooted if you're using a custom rom like LineageOS, where you could potentially install the extension with temporary root like is done for UnifiedNLP here: blog.eowyn.net/unifiednlp/
- bentcorner 5y ago
  Link: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.fdroid.privileged.ota/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.fdroid.privileged...
hadrien01 5y ago
I just use SkyDroid. It's way faster, less buggy, and compatible with Shinzuku which allows rootless auto-updates by making use of newer developer options (Android 11+)
pmontra 5y ago
I'm OK with manual updates, I disabled autoupdates on Google Play too because I can't trust the apps to actually update them and not remove some functionality or worse. You are right that the download / install process is very quirky. It often fails to provide the right feedback about what's going on and errors are common. Is it downloading, is it installing, did it get my touch? However I really want to install from there and not from Google.
mod50ack 5y ago
This action is supported by Droid-ify, an unofficial client.
AshamedCaptain 5y ago
> UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION I actually tried to play with this not long ago, and it is so broken that it makes me think they just wanted to "check the box" in case some judge thought this was abusive behavior. It probably still is. Not only this API is available only on Android 12, it also _only_ works for programs that have Android 12 as target level API (i.e. when you try to upgrade older programs the prompt will still show up), and only works for programs that your package manager installed in the first place. GPlay does not have this limitation and will happily update packages you installed, after which your package manager is no longer allowed to upgrade them. It's all a big mess.
discardedrefuse 5y ago
Just FYI, NewPipe has their own F-Droid repo with faster updates. https://newpipe.net/FAQ/tutorials/install-add-fdroid-repo/ https://newpipe.net/FAQ/tutorials/install-add-fdroid-repo/ So does Bromite browser. https://www.bromite.org/fdroid https://www.bromite.org/fdroid
- trs-80 5y ago
  That, in itself, is another nice feature of F-Droid. It allows you to add additional repositories of your own choosing. It's so refreshing, especially compared to $megacorp <strike>control freak</strike>, er, security measures, yeah that's it!
TwoNineFive 5y ago
Slightly hyperbolic in saying it's "usable in practice", but only slightly, and everything you said is true per my own experience. That just makes these issues super annoying. Normal people won't put up with it, and they shouldn't have to. Hacker types might be motivated to continue using F-Droid, but power users and others probably won't.
amatecha 5y ago
Hmm, sounds great to me. I loathe automatic updates and consider them a great way to ruin the software I'm used to. I can't possibly count the number of times an update to a piece of software (especially on closed platforms like iOS) broke something I rely on and I had to either wait until the developer fixed the issue, or just accept that the software is never again going to work the way it used to. Further, I disable notifications for nearly everything, so that point doesn't matter to me either. I'm definitely relieved that the most-upvoted comment critiquing F-Droid doesn't raise anything of concern for me! I was worried I was about to read something that might push me away from making a de-Googled Android device my next smartphone... haha
pSYoniK 5y ago
I have been using F-Droid for about 2 years now as the main source for the few apps that I use and updates are coming through without interaction. Bitwarden/Aegis/Tutanota/Syncthing/K-9 all receive regular updates as far as I've experienced during this time. I also haven't had issues with update flow. When was the last time you used F-Droid for a prolonged period of time?
- Leherenn 5y ago
  I have the same issue fwiw. A notification to update NewPipe that always fail to install the update, but it works if you do it manually in the app. Just happened a couple of hours ago.

simcop2387 5y ago

I believe this is a result of fdroid wanting to support older android versions for longer than google does. They could probably make two versions to allow this though but that would require more maintenance

btdmaster 5y ago

Issue tracking here: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/2316 https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/2316

staindk 5y ago

Not really a counter point because you mention a lot of other issues with f-droid that sound valid (I haven't used it myself) - but as a tangent regarding auto updates, I disable them basically everywhere because I seem to have buggy experiences too often if I allow stuff to update all the time. I then go through the list of updates in the Play Store once a week or so and install those that I think might improve app functioning/stability. I look over and install Windows updates once a way-too-long (need to work on this). Feel like everyone is skimping on QA these days or something else fishy is going on. In the last handful of years there have been 2 or 3 Windows updates that either permanently erased data or caused some other insane issues. I didn't get them (tbf I understand that most people didn't), partially thanks to having auto updates disabled.

thaumasiotes 5y ago
> In the last handful of years there have been 2 or 3 Windows updates that either permanently erased data or caused some other insane issues. I'm still mad about the Windows update that permanently stopped Windows from working with my Bose headphones. The headphones continued to work perfectly with anything that wasn't running Windows.
- infinityio 5y ago
  Out of interest, have you tested them on win11? One of the later win10 updates broke my Bluetooth headphones (actually, Bluetooth in general became pretty buggy), but they 'magically' unbroke after the upgrade
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    No, I haven't.
  - hansel_der 5y ago
    ime bluetooth has been buggy ever since. not always, but it failed me countless times in the worst situations. one reason why a phone has to have a 3,5mm jack.
andai 5y ago
>I look over and install Windows updates once a way-too-long I thought you needed some kind of registry hacks or something to disable automatic updates since W10, can you elaborate on how you got it to stop pestering you?
- lsferreira42 5y ago
  I followed this website and it works: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10 https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-a...
  - 5y ago

ancientsofmumu 5y ago

> ...but it's just not usable in practice. > ...this makes using packages installed through F-Droid a nightmare. I run 2x Androids with near 80%-90% of the packages installed from F-Droid repos (to include Bromite and Bitwarden custom repos); it has quirks and is not perfect - but far from "not usable" and "nightmare" as your hyperbole would suggest.

newaccount74 5y ago
Same here. Curation could still be better on F-Droid, but I'm very happy with it overall. Thank you whoever is behind it, you're doing a great job.
prvc 5y ago
This is exaggerated language, but the described traits are certainly inconvenient, unpleasant, and unnecessarily time consuming for the user.

kbelder 5y ago

In order to reduce disruption from updates, I've found it necessary to turn them off. I'll go into the play store and update the ones I want to update, when I want to. So for at least some users, this isn't a problem at all. It's a better default.

6yyyyyy 5y ago

>So it's manual clicking for each update. You need to install the F-Droid Privileged Extension, or use a ROM that has it pre-installed. That way it can update apps without user interaction.

blacksmith_tb 5y ago
Ah, but it looks like that means you need to be rooted?
- undersuit 5y ago
  Yes the Android OS requires you to be rooted to add the feature if your image wasn't built with the privileged extension.
- nobodywasishere 5y ago
  You don't need to be rooted if you're using a custom rom like LineageOS, where you could potentially install the extension with temporary root like is done for UnifiedNLP here: blog.eowyn.net/unifiednlp/
bentcorner 5y ago
Link: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.fdroid.privileged.ota/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.fdroid.fdroid.privileged...

hadrien01 5y ago

I just use SkyDroid. It's way faster, less buggy, and compatible with Shinzuku which allows rootless auto-updates by making use of newer developer options (Android 11+)

pmontra 5y ago

I'm OK with manual updates, I disabled autoupdates on Google Play too because I can't trust the apps to actually update them and not remove some functionality or worse. You are right that the download / install process is very quirky. It often fails to provide the right feedback about what's going on and errors are common. Is it downloading, is it installing, did it get my touch? However I really want to install from there and not from Google.

mod50ack 5y ago

This action is supported by Droid-ify, an unofficial client.

AshamedCaptain 5y ago

> UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION I actually tried to play with this not long ago, and it is so broken that it makes me think they just wanted to "check the box" in case some judge thought this was abusive behavior. It probably still is. Not only this API is available only on Android 12, it also _only_ works for programs that have Android 12 as target level API (i.e. when you try to upgrade older programs the prompt will still show up), and only works for programs that your package manager installed in the first place. GPlay does not have this limitation and will happily update packages you installed, after which your package manager is no longer allowed to upgrade them. It's all a big mess.

discardedrefuse 5y ago

Just FYI, NewPipe has their own F-Droid repo with faster updates. https://newpipe.net/FAQ/tutorials/install-add-fdroid-repo/ https://newpipe.net/FAQ/tutorials/install-add-fdroid-repo/ So does Bromite browser. https://www.bromite.org/fdroid https://www.bromite.org/fdroid

trs-80 5y ago
That, in itself, is another nice feature of F-Droid. It allows you to add additional repositories of your own choosing. It's so refreshing, especially compared to $megacorp <strike>control freak</strike>, er, security measures, yeah that's it!

TwoNineFive 5y ago

Slightly hyperbolic in saying it's "usable in practice", but only slightly, and everything you said is true per my own experience. That just makes these issues super annoying. Normal people won't put up with it, and they shouldn't have to. Hacker types might be motivated to continue using F-Droid, but power users and others probably won't.

amatecha 5y ago

Hmm, sounds great to me. I loathe automatic updates and consider them a great way to ruin the software I'm used to. I can't possibly count the number of times an update to a piece of software (especially on closed platforms like iOS) broke something I rely on and I had to either wait until the developer fixed the issue, or just accept that the software is never again going to work the way it used to. Further, I disable notifications for nearly everything, so that point doesn't matter to me either. I'm definitely relieved that the most-upvoted comment critiquing F-Droid doesn't raise anything of concern for me! I was worried I was about to read something that might push me away from making a de-Googled Android device my next smartphone... haha

pSYoniK 5y ago

I have been using F-Droid for about 2 years now as the main source for the few apps that I use and updates are coming through without interaction. Bitwarden/Aegis/Tutanota/Syncthing/K-9 all receive regular updates as far as I've experienced during this time. I also haven't had issues with update flow. When was the last time you used F-Droid for a prolonged period of time?

Leherenn 5y ago
I have the same issue fwiw. A notification to update NewPipe that always fail to install the update, but it works if you do it manually in the app. Just happened a couple of hours ago.