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He's not saying that anyone has to do what he suggests. He's suggesting that there might be benefits to folks being a little more studied about what they wear a

He's not saying that anyone has to do what he suggests. He's suggesting that there might be benefits to folks being a little more studied about what they wear and how it fits, and listing a few pointers on how someone who is interested might go about exploring that. He doesn't make any judgement (that I see) about people who choose to ignore his advice. (About the closest he comes is saying that "the days of t-shirts and hoodies are over.) He's not coming to rip off your t-shirt and put a tie around your neck.

kstenerud 15y ago
"I find poorly dressed people almost as off-putting as catching a scent of someone who didn't put deodorant on seeing too much of someone who doesn't have the decency to wear a belt." Sounds pretty judgmental to me.
- tomkarlo 15y ago
  Sorry - I was talking about the OP, you were talking about that commenter. That said, in your view is there simply no relevant standard for personal maintenance? Is everything relative? If I show up to your wedding in a t-shirt and ripped jeans, is that ok as long as I don't mean any disrespect? The unfortunate fact is that you don't have to intend to be disrespectful in order to be disrespectful or inconsiderate. It's generally the reverse - one ends up being disrespectful, offensive or inconsiderate because they didn't adequately consider the sensitivities of other parties. It's about cultural norms. If you're in a society where folks expect you to wear deodorant, and you don't, you're going to have to be willing to be judged for it negatively, right or wrong. Similarly, if you dress like you don't care, don't be annoyed if some folks think you don't care. That's your right, but I'd argue it's also his right to judge you for it.
  - kstenerud 15y ago
    Actually, I was keeping in kind with the parent post (i.e. focusing not on the level of dress, but simply how well someone dresses within the socially appropriate level). Some people are better dressers than others. Getting offended simply because someone's shirt "clashes" with their pants is as pathetic as ripping on someone because they can't do math in their head.
    - omgsean 15y ago
      >Getting offended simply because someone's shirt "clashes" with their pants I don't think that's what he's talking about. I think he means things like holes, rips, stains, or a complete disregard for fit. If you make developer money and you wear clothes that fit that description that's a choice you're making. If you wear a striped shirt with striped pants because you don't know how to match patterns nobody is going to judge you, because at least you're trying. It would be pathetic to rip on someone because they can't do math in their head, but it wouldn't be pathetic to rip on someone who refuses to try because they think they're too good for math.
    - tomkarlo 15y ago
      The ability to dress "well" isn't some kind of innate talent that can't be learned. (This is /especially/ true for guys, given how little men's fashion changes over the years compared to women's.) Pretending that it's some kind of secret power is just shirking responsibility in the same way that some people say "I'm just not good at math" and then don't bother to try learning. We're not talking about high fashion here, we're talking about neat clothes that fit well. As far as fit, there are trained professionals who can help: tailors. Nor is it expensive if you have a little knowledge. Having a shirt fixed or pants hemmed costs about $10. A decent button down shirt from a place like Land End can cost as little as $15. Great leather shoes (that will last a decade) can be found on eBay for $100-$150. I've known folks who were totally color blind and had not problem with dressing well - they just had a thoughtful system and wardrobe that allowed them to pick things without having to worry about the color. This kind of basic knowledge is just like knowing the rules of the road so you're a better driver. It's not complex, it's highly useful and it's readily available. The OP was trying to provide some pointers for folks who want to learn.

kstenerud 15y ago

"I find poorly dressed people almost as off-putting as catching a scent of someone who didn't put deodorant on seeing too much of someone who doesn't have the decency to wear a belt." Sounds pretty judgmental to me.

tomkarlo 15y ago
Sorry - I was talking about the OP, you were talking about that commenter. That said, in your view is there simply no relevant standard for personal maintenance? Is everything relative? If I show up to your wedding in a t-shirt and ripped jeans, is that ok as long as I don't mean any disrespect? The unfortunate fact is that you don't have to intend to be disrespectful in order to be disrespectful or inconsiderate. It's generally the reverse - one ends up being disrespectful, offensive or inconsiderate because they didn't adequately consider the sensitivities of other parties. It's about cultural norms. If you're in a society where folks expect you to wear deodorant, and you don't, you're going to have to be willing to be judged for it negatively, right or wrong. Similarly, if you dress like you don't care, don't be annoyed if some folks think you don't care. That's your right, but I'd argue it's also his right to judge you for it.
- kstenerud 15y ago
  Actually, I was keeping in kind with the parent post (i.e. focusing not on the level of dress, but simply how well someone dresses within the socially appropriate level). Some people are better dressers than others. Getting offended simply because someone's shirt "clashes" with their pants is as pathetic as ripping on someone because they can't do math in their head.
  - omgsean 15y ago
    >Getting offended simply because someone's shirt "clashes" with their pants I don't think that's what he's talking about. I think he means things like holes, rips, stains, or a complete disregard for fit. If you make developer money and you wear clothes that fit that description that's a choice you're making. If you wear a striped shirt with striped pants because you don't know how to match patterns nobody is going to judge you, because at least you're trying. It would be pathetic to rip on someone because they can't do math in their head, but it wouldn't be pathetic to rip on someone who refuses to try because they think they're too good for math.
  - tomkarlo 15y ago
    The ability to dress "well" isn't some kind of innate talent that can't be learned. (This is /especially/ true for guys, given how little men's fashion changes over the years compared to women's.) Pretending that it's some kind of secret power is just shirking responsibility in the same way that some people say "I'm just not good at math" and then don't bother to try learning. We're not talking about high fashion here, we're talking about neat clothes that fit well. As far as fit, there are trained professionals who can help: tailors. Nor is it expensive if you have a little knowledge. Having a shirt fixed or pants hemmed costs about $10. A decent button down shirt from a place like Land End can cost as little as $15. Great leather shoes (that will last a decade) can be found on eBay for $100-$150. I've known folks who were totally color blind and had not problem with dressing well - they just had a thoughtful system and wardrobe that allowed them to pick things without having to worry about the color. This kind of basic knowledge is just like knowing the rules of the road so you're a better driver. It's not complex, it's highly useful and it's readily available. The OP was trying to provide some pointers for folks who want to learn.