5 ms·

Did you even read the article? He's very complimentary of everything Amazon's doing here. Leave it to HN to zero in on the one critical thing he says and blow

by Steko 15y ago

Did you even read the article? He's very complimentary of everything Amazon's doing here. Leave it to HN to zero in on the one critical thing he says and blow it up as HUGE BIAS TYPICAL GRUBER FANBOY.

alttag 15y ago
Yes, he's complimentary, but as someone who often agrees with Gruber, even I found that part a little jarring. I think he's mostly right on this one, but if anything, too conservative about the potential for the Fire.
InclinedPlane 15y ago
Sure, he's very complimentary, in an "imma let you finish, but the iPad is the best laptop replacement of ALL TIME!" sort of way, which is to say rather derogatory at the same time. He tries to place the iPad and the Fire as distinctly different products serving distinctly different market segments: the iPad as the high-end "laptop replacement" the Kindle Fire as the low-end, low-cost, blue collar, half-assed substitute which lures users into buying it through content delivery rather than device or experience excellence. That's not terribly complimentary when you boil it down. My take is that the Fire, keeping in mind this is a 1st gen product too, is a quite suitable iPad competitor head-to-head. It will provide a high-quality browsing experience similar or superior to the iPad and it will provide a high-quality e-book reading experience similar or superior to the iPad. The Fire's lack of dependence on any sort of syncing with a PC is also a point where the experience is outright superior. The biggest difference is the size and perhaps the hardware / performance / efficiency, personally I don't think there's an objective reason to pick one or the other as obviously superior in this category. Perhaps an 11" screen is vastly preferred to a 7" screen, perhaps both are suitable, perhaps the 7" is more preferred, I don't know, and it's too soon to tell how well the Fire will stack up against the iPad performance wise. The other big difference is the app/game ecosystem. The iPad definitely has a head start and there are plenty of popular games and apps that are iOS only at the moment, but to be honest I don't think that network effect is big enough to drive the market a whole hell of a lot at the moment, especially in the face of a $300 premium on the iPad. The Fire doesn't have 3G, but it remains to be seen how important that is. Overall, I think the Kindle Fire is a pretty strong competitor to the iPad, regardless of price. As I said, I think many people will find it to be a decent laptop replacement. Moreover, I think over the next year or so there are going to be a lot of moments where people who bought Kindle Fire's at or near launch will be having experiences that will make a lot of iPad 2 owners jealous.
- Steko 15y ago
  "Sure, he's very complimentary, in an "imma let you finish, but the iPad is the best laptop replacement of ALL TIME!" sort of way, which is to say rather derogatory at the same time." This is nonsense. It's a 21 paragraph, 1500 word piece and he spends exactly one on "laptop replacement", you're clearly the one hung up on those two sentences. "He tries to place the iPad and the Fire as distinctly different products serving distinctly different market segments" No he says they're attacking the market from different ends. Consumers in the middle would clearly have to choose between one or the other. That's distinctly different :p from what you're saying. "That's not terribly complimentary when you boil it down." Did you read the other 20 paragraphs? The article on the whole is very complimentary of Amazon's effort, his experience with the e-ink Kindle, even the ads (a lot of people seem up in arms that Amazon's keynote prices are for the ad-supported versions, compare Marco.org).
  - InclinedPlane 15y ago
    He has a lot of very nice things to say, certainly, but the actionable thing he says is the most derogatory. How can the Fire and the iPad both service the same market if one is a laptop replacement and the other is not? Yes he dresses it up with a lot of really nice sounding verbiage, but at the end of the day this is a "well, she's really good at {math,sports,engineering}... for a girl" sort of backhanded compliment. It's like saying that the Model T is a really, really nice car, almost as good as a Hispano-Suiza... but it's not a horse replacement.
    - Steko 15y ago
      I still can't figure out why you're hung up on this 'laptop replacement' thing as though he dropped trou and took a dump on right on the Kindle Fire itself by saying that. It's not a huge derogatory criticism, it's an observation. You're certainly free to disagree, I do as well somewhat (below) but you're massively missing the point if you think two sentences about laptop replacement is the only "actionable thing he says" and that it's derogatory.

by Steko 15y ago

alttag 15y ago

Yes, he's complimentary, but as someone who often agrees with Gruber, even I found that part a little jarring. I think he's mostly right on this one, but if anything, too conservative about the potential for the Fire.

InclinedPlane 15y ago

Sure, he's very complimentary, in an "imma let you finish, but the iPad is the best laptop replacement of ALL TIME!" sort of way, which is to say rather derogatory at the same time. He tries to place the iPad and the Fire as distinctly different products serving distinctly different market segments: the iPad as the high-end "laptop replacement" the Kindle Fire as the low-end, low-cost, blue collar, half-assed substitute which lures users into buying it through content delivery rather than device or experience excellence. That's not terribly complimentary when you boil it down. My take is that the Fire, keeping in mind this is a 1st gen product too, is a quite suitable iPad competitor head-to-head. It will provide a high-quality browsing experience similar or superior to the iPad and it will provide a high-quality e-book reading experience similar or superior to the iPad. The Fire's lack of dependence on any sort of syncing with a PC is also a point where the experience is outright superior. The biggest difference is the size and perhaps the hardware / performance / efficiency, personally I don't think there's an objective reason to pick one or the other as obviously superior in this category. Perhaps an 11" screen is vastly preferred to a 7" screen, perhaps both are suitable, perhaps the 7" is more preferred, I don't know, and it's too soon to tell how well the Fire will stack up against the iPad performance wise. The other big difference is the app/game ecosystem. The iPad definitely has a head start and there are plenty of popular games and apps that are iOS only at the moment, but to be honest I don't think that network effect is big enough to drive the market a whole hell of a lot at the moment, especially in the face of a $300 premium on the iPad. The Fire doesn't have 3G, but it remains to be seen how important that is. Overall, I think the Kindle Fire is a pretty strong competitor to the iPad, regardless of price. As I said, I think many people will find it to be a decent laptop replacement. Moreover, I think over the next year or so there are going to be a lot of moments where people who bought Kindle Fire's at or near launch will be having experiences that will make a lot of iPad 2 owners jealous.

Steko 15y ago
"Sure, he's very complimentary, in an "imma let you finish, but the iPad is the best laptop replacement of ALL TIME!" sort of way, which is to say rather derogatory at the same time." This is nonsense. It's a 21 paragraph, 1500 word piece and he spends exactly one on "laptop replacement", you're clearly the one hung up on those two sentences. "He tries to place the iPad and the Fire as distinctly different products serving distinctly different market segments" No he says they're attacking the market from different ends. Consumers in the middle would clearly have to choose between one or the other. That's distinctly different :p from what you're saying. "That's not terribly complimentary when you boil it down." Did you read the other 20 paragraphs? The article on the whole is very complimentary of Amazon's effort, his experience with the e-ink Kindle, even the ads (a lot of people seem up in arms that Amazon's keynote prices are for the ad-supported versions, compare Marco.org).
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  He has a lot of very nice things to say, certainly, but the actionable thing he says is the most derogatory. How can the Fire and the iPad both service the same market if one is a laptop replacement and the other is not? Yes he dresses it up with a lot of really nice sounding verbiage, but at the end of the day this is a "well, she's really good at {math,sports,engineering}... for a girl" sort of backhanded compliment. It's like saying that the Model T is a really, really nice car, almost as good as a Hispano-Suiza... but it's not a horse replacement.
  - Steko 15y ago
    I still can't figure out why you're hung up on this 'laptop replacement' thing as though he dropped trou and took a dump on right on the Kindle Fire itself by saying that. It's not a huge derogatory criticism, it's an observation. You're certainly free to disagree, I do as well somewhat (below) but you're massively missing the point if you think two sentences about laptop replacement is the only "actionable thing he says" and that it's derogatory.