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No. I have some mutual acquaintances with the owner through effective altruism and I've heard good things. It's pretty insane that he left Jane Street to try ma

by exdsq 5y ago

No. I have some mutual acquaintances with the owner through effective altruism and I've heard good things. It's pretty insane that he left Jane Street to try make more money to give to effective charities and now at 29 is worth $22.5 Billion! So they have the money to spend on these things and the fact he's running a future fund makes total sense based on what his original goals were.

wmf 5y ago
Where did that money come from, though? People getting margin called on their life savings? Update: I assume the majority of SBF's net worth is from FTX not Alameda, so my question is where does FTX's money come from. I assume it's from wrecking retail traders.
- exdsq 5y ago
  Crypto trading with his own money and then his own fund. I believe it was Alameda Research which is still going. Basically a bunch of young Jane Street/MIT/Stanford mathematicians who've made a killing. You can read a little more about it here: https://80000hours.org/stories/sam-bankman-fried/ https://80000hours.org/stories/sam-bankman-fried/
- metacritic12 5y ago
  Is the assumption that just because SBF made money, it must have been through "some evil"? What's the basis for that assumption (versus anything else, like ICOing a new token).
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Nah the assumption that they made money in crypto which is just a cesspool of fraud, grift and crime - is what gives some folks the assumption that it could have been through fraud, grift or crime. You hang out in the muck, folks are going to assume you have some on you. I'm not saying they do necessarily, just that that's where the assumption more than likely comes from.
- putlake 5y ago
  exdsq is right in the sibling comment. Alameda also made a lot of money (probably still does) with arbitrage. BTC in Korea costs more than BTC in the US. It's not easy to convert KRW to USD freely but they seemed to have found a way around it. [Edit: Typo]
- vmception 5y ago
  Crypto exchanges make a lot of money. Just from trading fees. Margin calls don't typically have their own special fees, although the perpetuals products (that one can get margin called on to begin with) typically have daily fees. Coinbase did a direct listing of its shares at a $100bn valuation, with extremely low revenue numbers, which are still great numbers. Anyone that: A) Has similar volume B) Has similar growth C) Offers more ways of accruing value - such as perpetuals D) Retains greater ownership of their own company is simply going to have a lot of money. Its not that mysterious. Keeping a few $billion in crypto provides many opportunities for the same price appreciation as everyone else. Alameda is also known as being quite a shark when it comes to deal making, if you don't get something in writing they are going to do the most profitable thing at you/your community's expense as soon as the opportunity arises. Their OTC desk also likely has more volume than their lit exchange exchange, and OTC desks enjoy wider spreads in the trades. And remember, they have nonstop trading sessions, 24/7, so more than 3x as many sessions as a stock or options exchange, and slightly more than futures and currency exchanges.
  - tootie 5y ago
    When I see a crypto exchange with tens of billions of daily volume and almost no marketing, I assume they are dealing with institutions, governments and probably organized crime.
    - vmception 5y ago
      Yes all are on crypto exchanges, alongside retail. They grow fast because they provide an immediate service. Basically what happens is that they grow soooo fast that they arent able to handle customer support, cant list new assets that customers want fast enough, that even institutions want. So then the next startup crypto exchange lists the newly desired assets and attracts the whole network and people fearing missing out. And it keeps going. Thats the primary way they compete. There is a bunch of stuff behind the scenes for market depth and liquidity, but it reduces the need for exchanges to compete with each other on liquidity so its not really a factor just like trading commissions are really how they compete. Boom town.
  - 5y ago
- delaaxe 5y ago
  Liquidation fees are an very small portion of FTX's revenue.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  They did name it "Alameda Research" because they wanted to trick banks into servicing them.
floodyberry- 5y ago
"good things" is someone who claims to want to give his money away yet keeps getting richer, and is also getting a lot of his wealth by running an ethically dubious crypto exchange that is plastering its name on anything that will take their money?
- jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
  He keeps getting richer because he owns a large stake in a company that's grown massively in a few years. He's given away millions of dollars by age 29. Your criticism is he isn't giving away his money fast enough? Get a grip.
- exdsq 5y ago
  He does give money away but it's hard to give quickly unless you just spray and pray which is against his ideals. And I don't agree that FTX is dubious, I think they're a genuine legit exchange. I take from your comment that your issue is with crypto, which is fine, but people are making money in that space and if someone wants to use that to their advantage to make a load of money for charitable causes I'm all for it.
  - floodyberry- 5y ago
    So essentially, as long as he says he is only making all of this money so he can donate it, he gets the prestige of having already donated it without having done so yet, as well as a free pass to make the money however he sees fit?

by exdsq 5y ago

wmf 5y ago

Where did that money come from, though? People getting margin called on their life savings? Update: I assume the majority of SBF's net worth is from FTX not Alameda, so my question is where does FTX's money come from. I assume it's from wrecking retail traders.

exdsq 5y ago
Crypto trading with his own money and then his own fund. I believe it was Alameda Research which is still going. Basically a bunch of young Jane Street/MIT/Stanford mathematicians who've made a killing. You can read a little more about it here: https://80000hours.org/stories/sam-bankman-fried/ https://80000hours.org/stories/sam-bankman-fried/
metacritic12 5y ago
Is the assumption that just because SBF made money, it must have been through "some evil"? What's the basis for that assumption (versus anything else, like ICOing a new token).
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Nah the assumption that they made money in crypto which is just a cesspool of fraud, grift and crime - is what gives some folks the assumption that it could have been through fraud, grift or crime. You hang out in the muck, folks are going to assume you have some on you. I'm not saying they do necessarily, just that that's where the assumption more than likely comes from.
putlake 5y ago
exdsq is right in the sibling comment. Alameda also made a lot of money (probably still does) with arbitrage. BTC in Korea costs more than BTC in the US. It's not easy to convert KRW to USD freely but they seemed to have found a way around it. [Edit: Typo]
vmception 5y ago
Crypto exchanges make a lot of money. Just from trading fees. Margin calls don't typically have their own special fees, although the perpetuals products (that one can get margin called on to begin with) typically have daily fees. Coinbase did a direct listing of its shares at a $100bn valuation, with extremely low revenue numbers, which are still great numbers. Anyone that: A) Has similar volume B) Has similar growth C) Offers more ways of accruing value - such as perpetuals D) Retains greater ownership of their own company is simply going to have a lot of money. Its not that mysterious. Keeping a few $billion in crypto provides many opportunities for the same price appreciation as everyone else. Alameda is also known as being quite a shark when it comes to deal making, if you don't get something in writing they are going to do the most profitable thing at you/your community's expense as soon as the opportunity arises. Their OTC desk also likely has more volume than their lit exchange exchange, and OTC desks enjoy wider spreads in the trades. And remember, they have nonstop trading sessions, 24/7, so more than 3x as many sessions as a stock or options exchange, and slightly more than futures and currency exchanges.
- tootie 5y ago
  When I see a crypto exchange with tens of billions of daily volume and almost no marketing, I assume they are dealing with institutions, governments and probably organized crime.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Yes all are on crypto exchanges, alongside retail. They grow fast because they provide an immediate service. Basically what happens is that they grow soooo fast that they arent able to handle customer support, cant list new assets that customers want fast enough, that even institutions want. So then the next startup crypto exchange lists the newly desired assets and attracts the whole network and people fearing missing out. And it keeps going. Thats the primary way they compete. There is a bunch of stuff behind the scenes for market depth and liquidity, but it reduces the need for exchanges to compete with each other on liquidity so its not really a factor just like trading commissions are really how they compete. Boom town.
- 5y ago
delaaxe 5y ago
Liquidation fees are an very small portion of FTX's revenue.
arcticbull 5y ago
They did name it "Alameda Research" because they wanted to trick banks into servicing them.

floodyberry- 5y ago

"good things" is someone who claims to want to give his money away yet keeps getting richer, and is also getting a lot of his wealth by running an ethically dubious crypto exchange that is plastering its name on anything that will take their money?

jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
He keeps getting richer because he owns a large stake in a company that's grown massively in a few years. He's given away millions of dollars by age 29. Your criticism is he isn't giving away his money fast enough? Get a grip.
exdsq 5y ago
He does give money away but it's hard to give quickly unless you just spray and pray which is against his ideals. And I don't agree that FTX is dubious, I think they're a genuine legit exchange. I take from your comment that your issue is with crypto, which is fine, but people are making money in that space and if someone wants to use that to their advantage to make a load of money for charitable causes I'm all for it.
- floodyberry- 5y ago
  So essentially, as long as he says he is only making all of this money so he can donate it, he gets the prestige of having already donated it without having done so yet, as well as a free pass to make the money however he sees fit?