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So the West should just let Russia invade Ukraine? The reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbor was because of the oil embargo, sure. But the oil embargo was in pla

by enkid 5y ago

So the West should just let Russia invade Ukraine? The reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbor was because of the oil embargo, sure. But the oil embargo was in place because of their aggression against China. Should the US have kept selling oil to a country that was killing 100,000's of people in China? If is, where is the line drawn? When should the US have stopped supporting the Japanese war(which is what they were doing by selling the oil needed to carry it out)?

erichocean 5y ago
- pixl97 5y ago
  Every libertarian is fine with libertarianism right up till the moment they experience the repercussions of their actions. When someone murders a person you stop them, even if the risk of them murdering more people is a possibility.
  - erichocean 5y ago
    > When someone murders a person you stop them, even if the risk of them murdering more people is a possibility. Really? There were ~800 homicides in Chicago last year.[0] I haven't lifted a finger, have you? Maybe we should announce an "oil blockade" on the city to get them to change their behavior. Strip their funding. Block trade with other states/cities. But (of course) we won't. Why? Chicago? Those are our friends. And we reward our friends! "Murder" has nothing to do with it, and neither do "libertarian" principles. [0] https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-2021-homicides-final-20220103-lrpzuh5nsjhspmos3edrzxu2ei-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-2021...
    - pixl97 5y ago
      I might suggest just removing your reply, it's seeming rather unhinged and disconnected from the facts at hand.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > Because of the blockade, we eventually ended up killing 250K Americans, burned alive 150K German civilians, and nuked two cities in Japan. We're just gonna pretend "ended the Holocaust" doesn't sit on the other side of that scale, eh?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
eezurr 5y ago
Professor John Mearsheimer (a distinguished professor of political science) gave an inciteful talk regarding these events after Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014[1]. He places the blame squarely on the US for these events. The US would react just the same if Russia started expanding its military operations on our boarders [2]. I am deeply concerned that the West keeps upping the confrontation instead of backing down. Russia is sending some of its nuclear arsenal to Belarus as we speak [3] [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis [3] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=belarus+nuclear https://duckduckgo.com/?q=belarus+nuclear Also, please don't flag my comment again. Everyone who's replied to you so far has had their comment flagged.
- enkid 5y ago
  The US did not make Putin invade Ukraine. That's like saying Iran made the US invade Iraq, because Saddam didn't give up WMDs because he was scared about Iran. The only person who made Putin invade Ukraine is Putin. The US and West are not the ones that are upping the confrontation. Putin has invaded his neighbors multiple times, is interfering in internal political processes of democracies, and is threatening nuclear weapon use constantly. You can't look at this from one side and say it's the "West's" fault without looking that the Russian actions that were just as, or more escalatory. Edit: Also, I haven't flagged a single comment today, nor do I think I can flag a reply to my comments.
  - sinyug 5y ago
    - egman_ekki 5y ago
      > The map of Eastern Europe and NATO expansion over the last 25 years makes the US intention to encircle Russia very clear. Perhaps that was the evil plan of NATO. Why I feel it's different, though, is that those Eastern European countries tried to enter NATO as quickly as possible, as they still remembered Russia/USSR saving them from democracy in the 60s/70s. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
The West didn't expect anyone to intervene when we attacked Iraq over false claims about WMDs.
- enkid 5y ago
  I don't understand your point. Iran certainly did intervene though. And I don't think there are many people you can point to that say now that the invasion was a good idea.
  - x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
    Iran's intervention by putting explosively formed penetrators into the field of play pales in comparison to the West mobilizing their main armies.
AniseAbyss 5y ago
As cruel as it sounds: for the EU it is better to break Putin in Ukraine now rather than to wait.

by enkid 5y ago

erichocean 5y ago

pixl97 5y ago
Every libertarian is fine with libertarianism right up till the moment they experience the repercussions of their actions. When someone murders a person you stop them, even if the risk of them murdering more people is a possibility.
- erichocean 5y ago
  > When someone murders a person you stop them, even if the risk of them murdering more people is a possibility. Really? There were ~800 homicides in Chicago last year.[0] I haven't lifted a finger, have you? Maybe we should announce an "oil blockade" on the city to get them to change their behavior. Strip their funding. Block trade with other states/cities. But (of course) we won't. Why? Chicago? Those are our friends. And we reward our friends! "Murder" has nothing to do with it, and neither do "libertarian" principles. [0] https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-2021-homicides-final-20220103-lrpzuh5nsjhspmos3edrzxu2ei-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-2021...
  - pixl97 5y ago
    I might suggest just removing your reply, it's seeming rather unhinged and disconnected from the facts at hand.
ceejayoz 5y ago
> Because of the blockade, we eventually ended up killing 250K Americans, burned alive 150K German civilians, and nuked two cities in Japan. We're just gonna pretend "ended the Holocaust" doesn't sit on the other side of that scale, eh?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

eezurr 5y ago

Professor John Mearsheimer (a distinguished professor of political science) gave an inciteful talk regarding these events after Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014[1]. He places the blame squarely on the US for these events. The US would react just the same if Russia started expanding its military operations on our boarders [2]. I am deeply concerned that the West keeps upping the confrontation instead of backing down. Russia is sending some of its nuclear arsenal to Belarus as we speak [3] [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis [3] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=belarus+nuclear https://duckduckgo.com/?q=belarus+nuclear Also, please don't flag my comment again. Everyone who's replied to you so far has had their comment flagged.

enkid 5y ago
The US did not make Putin invade Ukraine. That's like saying Iran made the US invade Iraq, because Saddam didn't give up WMDs because he was scared about Iran. The only person who made Putin invade Ukraine is Putin. The US and West are not the ones that are upping the confrontation. Putin has invaded his neighbors multiple times, is interfering in internal political processes of democracies, and is threatening nuclear weapon use constantly. You can't look at this from one side and say it's the "West's" fault without looking that the Russian actions that were just as, or more escalatory. Edit: Also, I haven't flagged a single comment today, nor do I think I can flag a reply to my comments.
- sinyug 5y ago
  - egman_ekki 5y ago
    > The map of Eastern Europe and NATO expansion over the last 25 years makes the US intention to encircle Russia very clear. Perhaps that was the evil plan of NATO. Why I feel it's different, though, is that those Eastern European countries tried to enter NATO as quickly as possible, as they still remembered Russia/USSR saving them from democracy in the 60s/70s. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956

x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago

The West didn't expect anyone to intervene when we attacked Iraq over false claims about WMDs.

enkid 5y ago
I don't understand your point. Iran certainly did intervene though. And I don't think there are many people you can point to that say now that the invasion was a good idea.
- x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
  Iran's intervention by putting explosively formed penetrators into the field of play pales in comparison to the West mobilizing their main armies.

AniseAbyss 5y ago

As cruel as it sounds: for the EU it is better to break Putin in Ukraine now rather than to wait.